Talk:Killeigh parish

Scope

What is this article "for"? If the scope is:

"Geographical" (as implied by its original infobox/categorisation/etc) then why wouldn't the related text/topics be covered in the Killeigh or Geashill or other existing (and actually geographical) articles. That are better suited for geographic text (about mountains and villages and whatever)
"Ecclesiastical" (as implied by the [confusing] "directory of priests") why wouldn't that be covered within the existing Roman Catholic Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin article?
"Architectural" (as implied by the list of church buildings) why wouldn't that also be covered in the articles on the villages where those churches are located. Or, if the individual buildings meet WP:NBUILDING, a standalone article. As would typically be the case.
"Sporting" (as per the list of 3x GAA clubs) why would that subject be covered in an article about an ecclesiastical parish? Yes, some GAA clubs/catchments traditionally follow similar boundaries to that of the local Catholic parish, but GAA clubs themselves are not a "sub-set" of a Catholic parish?

Other than acting as a WP:NOTMIRROR of the parish website and repeating content (a WP:CFORK) already in other existing articles, what is this title "for"? I'm especially confused as to how the titular subject (the ecclesiastical parish) has notability independent of geographic area in which it sits. What am I missing? How is the ecclesiastical parish independently notable? And where is the significant and independent coverage which establishes that notability? Guliolopez (talk) 01:12, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note. Unless there's an indication of independent notability (supported by significant coverage in independent sources), I'm inclined to redirect this title to Killeigh#Religion. Where any small amount of text about the Catholic parish (that doesn't redundantly replicate stuff already covered there or elsewhere) can easily be covered. Otherwise, as above, I'm having a hard time understanding how a separate/standalone title is justified. Or what it could cover - that isn't already/appropriately covered elsewhere.... Guliolopez (talk) 02:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bump. As above, and unless there are other thoughts, I will shortly merge (any related content) and redirect (this title) to Killeigh#Religion. Guliolopez (talk) 12:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the sport-section as the clubs are in no way part of the church. The Banner talk 15:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And now I have removed it for the second time. The Banner talk 05:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is an article on the geographic area of Killeigh parish yes it is based on the boundaries of Killeigh RC parish but the article is about the geographic area, it mentions the churches and all because its about Killeigh parish but it is not only about the catholic parish it is the geographic area and all that is contained within that area and all that is part of it not just the RC church and Priests and that was made clear in the creation of the article,the fact that other editors tried to change it from its original purpose towards a solely religious purpose does not chamge what the page is about, and thus why the vandalism by other editors to change the page from ehat it is intended for must be repeatedly corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Budisgood (talk • contribs) 23:04, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. With thanks for your note, and while it was undoubtedly unintentional, in adding your note you removed comments from several other editors. Please do not edit or remove other editor's talk page comments. In terms of the points raised:

"based on the boundaries of Killeigh RC parish but the article is about the geographic area". To my understanding, the only parish which is coterminous with the boundaries of the Roman Catholic parish is that ecclesiastical (religious) parish. The civil (geo/political) parish in the area is the civil parish of Geashill. Which (per various sources) contains the village and townland of Killeigh. What other/geographic parish is there? And what sources describe it as a "geographic" parish? Distinct from (but sharing the same boundaries as) the Catholic parish?
"change it from its original purpose towards a solely religious purpose". I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here. The original article, created by you(?), described the subject as a "Roman Catholic parish" that is "within the Diocese of Kildare and Leighlin" of which the "parish priest is Fr. John Stapleton" and which is "served by three churches". How does this not describe a religious scope? Specifically the RC parish? (Yes, an editor removed the stuff about the GAA clubs, but that may have been because of the confusing (and at the very least unusual) grouping of GAA clubs within an article that (titularly and per the infobox and lead) is about a religious community.)
"vandalism by other editors". While it is probably true to say that some of The Banner's edits, like this one, were a bit on the "blunt" side and more than a little WP:BOLD, they do not represent "vandalism". WP:VANDALISM has a specific meaning on Wikipedia. And edits (including bold ones) shouldn't be described as vandalism when they are not. Please see WP:NOTVANDALISM.

For what it is worth, it is my position (based on my understanding of the convention) that GAA topics are normally covered within the related town/village articles. And sometimes in the article on the civil parish. I can't find any other article where GAA clubs are grouped together and covered in articles on ecclesiastical parishes. And, for that matter, it is highly unusual for an ecclesiastical parish to have its own standalone article. Especially when the same content is (or can be) covered in the geographical articles. Where is the significant/independent/reliable coverage of the "geographical" parish of Killeigh? Independent of the townland of Killeigh or the village of Killeigh? To justify or support a standalone article? Guliolopez (talk) 22:27, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by other editors? What about this edit then? An article about the RC-parish can certainly be notable but then it has to be written based on independent sources, not the parish website. The Banner talk 23:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bump. Lookit, if there are no other thoughts/input, I'm gonna merge/redirect over the weekend. As noted, if there are no independent/reliable/verifiable sources covering the "parish" of Killeigh [geographical or ecclesiastical or civil or otherwise] in some depth and as an independent topic, then independent notability isn't established. And a standalone article cannot be supported. (Otherwise, as it stands, pretty much all the content here is already covered in the Killeigh article. Or could/should be. Including name/location/ecclesiastical history/etc). Guliolopez (talk) 22:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, the scope is ecclesiastical, and the diocese page is too broad to warrant merging this level of detail into each for each of the (many) parishes in the diocese (noting that we don't have Deanery pages). Readers are hence best served by having the contents separately discussed, as with other Parishes of the Catholic Church in Ireland. Klbrain (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. But where are the independent sources and coverage to confirm that this Catholic parish has sufficient notability to warrant a standalone article? And to support the content in that separate article?

Also, while there may be other titles categorised under the Category:Parishes of the Catholic Church in Ireland parent category, I would note that:

Many of those titles, including effectively all of the titles under the Category:Parishes of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Cashel and Emly sub-category, relate to the titular towns/villages/civil parishes/geographical subjects (with which the Catholic parishes share names/borders). Rather than separate titles (just to cover the ecclesiastical aspect or a geographical topic). And
Just because some other parishes are sufficiently notable and/or have standalone articles, doesn't mean that this one does.

Thoughts (and sources) are welcome. Unless there are sources, then moving to AfD next. Guliolopez (talk) 09:32, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]