Talk:Khnumhotep II

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Ancient Egypt

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WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

Predecessor

It lists his predecessor as Njedynakht, but it seems that Nakht was his predecessor (as per his tomb inscription). Does this seem clear enough to revise his entry? Jokrez (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jokrez: do you have a source for the tomb inscription mentioning Nakht as his predecessor? The current source (Grajetzki) calls Netjernakht as the most likely one. Khruner (talk) 20:45, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, lines 54-58 of http://www.brainfly.net/html/books/rop0195.pdf (an old translation but publicly available) of the tomb inscription gives Nekht (Nakht) as the previous holder. I can add it to the refs if you want. Jokrez (talk) 21:11, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting, the text is very convoluted, I need to calmly read this tomorrow. Khruner (talk) 21:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, from the text (by the way, I find the later translation by Newberry more clear and better explained) it would appear that the ruling sequence was Khnumhotep I -> his son Nakht -> his nephew Khnumhotep II. Grajetzki (p.136) states that eventual connections between Netjernakht and Nakht are obscure, and this factor indeed may give a sense of estrangement to his placement.
However, the same author also reports that Khnumhotep II built a tomb for Netjernakht, calling him "his father" (in the sense of "ancestor") on its walls. This is probably the reason why Netjernakht is believed to have been Khnumhotep II's immediate – perhaps ephemeral? – predecessor.
The situation is further complicated by the intervening rule of another totally unrelated figure, Amenemhat, who held the same charge under Senusret I. One could speculate that the ruling sequence was instead Khnumhotep I -> Nakht -> Amenemhat -> Netjernakht -> Khnumhotep II, with the fourth and fifth rulers belonging to a different family line.
@Udimu:, considering your knowledge of the period in question, do you have any information regarding our Netjernakht? Khruner (talk) 20:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The line of governors is a little bit complicated. It seems two main office holders were buried at Beni Hasan. There are the overlord of the gazelle nome on the one side and on the other side there are the mayors of Menat-Khufu. It is not really known how they are connected. The line of mayors of Menat-Khufu is Khnumhotep I, Nakht, Netjernakht, Khnumhotep Ii and Khnumhotep III. (my information come from A. G. Shedidː Die Felsgraeber von Beni Hassan in Mittelaegpten, Mainz 1994, page 22). The fixed data are Khnumhotep I is the father of Nakht. Khnumhotep II is the grandson of Khnumhotep I. Khnumhotep II reports that one of his ancestors was Netjernakht. The exact position of Netjernakht is not stated, but as Nakht is the son of Khnumhotep I, it seems likely that Netjernakht is in between Nakht and Khumhotep II. (see Newberry, Beni Hassan II, page 29 [1]. There is an inscription in the tomb of Netjernakht stating that Khnumhotep II built the tomb for his ancestor Netjernakht). See also the Metropolitan Museum catalogue ː [2] The Birch article is very old. --Udimu (talk) 21:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Udimu I had not realized that there were two different hereditary offices in question. Thanks for the exhaustive explanation! Khruner (talk) 16:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]