Talk:Kew Gardens Hills, Queens

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Parkway Village

Parkway Village is not in Kew Gardens Hills it is not even part of Flushing, nor does it have a Flushing ZIP code. Any reference to it should probably be removed from this article with the possible exception that it is covered by the Kew Gardens Hills Eruv. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.243.26 (talk) 19:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

do you have evidence? 24.103.19.4 (talk) 17:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See map of Parkway Village at http://www.parkwayvillage.us. Location of the development is outside the boundaries of the neighborhood as defined in this article. Contact information will show you a Jamaica Zip Code (starts 114). Neighborhood names are not officially designated by the City of New York, and therefore if Parkway Village it outside of the definition of the neighborhood boundaries then additional proof is not needed other than to look at a map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.207.199 (talk) 18:09, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The information by the original poster of this thread, about the eruv for Kew Gardens Hills including Parkway Village, may be true, but I noticed that the St. Nicholas of Tolentine Youth Center, which is also bounded by the triangle of Parsons Boulevard, Union Turnpike and Grand Central Parkway, has the address 15075 Goethals Ave -- Jamaica, NY 11432 -- Neighborhood: Hillcrest. However, an apartment for sale (posted in late Feb. 2012) stated Kew Gardens Hills as the neighborhood, and its address is 150-90 Village Rd 107D -- Kew Gardens Hills, NY 11367, which is in Parkway Village. Even the ZIP code 11367 belongs to KGH. This is not a simple matter of looking at a map. --Skol fir (talk) 19:00, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kew Gardens Hills is a part of Flushing.

Kew Gardens Hills is a part of Flushing. It is not just Flushing because the USPS calls it Flushing. Nor is KGH just south of Flushing. It is in southern Flushing. Saying it is just south of Flushing is liking saying New York City is just south of New York State. Kew Gardens Hills is south of the neighborhood of Queensboro Hill. What you are most likely calling Flushing is the village/neighborhood of Flushing (your apples), which is only a small part of the town of Flushing (your oranges). The area of Kew Gardens Hills was always a part of the town of Flushing, as are many neighborhoods in the borough of Queens such as Forest Hills, Fresh Meadows, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.207.199 (talk) 18:15, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll take your word for it, since you apparently live in the area and I do not. BTW, the word "properly" is not subjective. It is based on the fact that so many people thought that the previous name was improper for their local P.O., that they bothered to make an effort to change it, as evidenced by your very own reference. If anything, it was "proper" for the name to be changed, or would you prefer "appropriate"?

I will accept your definition of "Flushing" as the town proper, not the Google map version, which shows borders outside and to the north of Kew Gardens Hills. That means that there are two definitions of "Flushing". Also List of Queens neighborhoods does not show KGH as a "sub-neighborhood" of Flushing. I also cannot find "sub-neighborhood" in any dictionary. It must be a recent invention of SimCity, not yet in the mainstream. --Skol fir (talk) 03:07, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are others who define Flushing as NOT including Kew Gardens Hills. For example, in the section for Higher_education in Flushing, it says "Queens College, founded in 1937, is a senior college of the City University of New York (CUNY), and is commonly misconceived to be within Flushing neighborhood limits due to its Flushing mailing address. It is actually located in the nearby neighborhood of Kew Gardens Hills on Kissena Boulevard near the Long Island Expressway." Also, in the following article about the neighborhood of Flushing -- Flushing: Queens Neighborhood Profile -- it says, "The LIE is the southern border (Kew Gardens Hills)." As you know, the LIE runs north of Kew Gardens Hills, and is known as the Horace Harding Expressway in that section (east of Queens Blvd.). Therefore, the Neighborhood of Flushing (not the town, as you would define it) lies just north of Kew Gardens Hills, as I already said before. Someone needs to clarify this issue in the Wiki article for "Flushing", where it does say that its southern border is the Union Turnpike, which also marks the southern border for Kew Gardens Hills, thus placing KGH within the boundaries of "Flushing".

This is not a clear-cut case, by any means. It might be helpful in the future, to distinguish between Flushing, the town, and Flushing, the neighborhood. They are not one and the same. --Skol fir (talk) 16:16, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is also worth noting that the Community Districts for Flushing and Kew Gardens Hills are different (7 and 8 respectively). Similarly, in Real Estate, the boundaries of "Flushing" separate it clearly from Kew Gardens Hills -- Flushing, NY -- Geographic Boundaries. The southern boundary, by this definition, is 64th Ave., which is the northern boundary of Kew Gardens Hills. I rest my case. Anyway, as there is confusion about the real boundaries of Flushing, I agree to keep the wording as you now have it -- "(the neighborhood lies in the south of Flushing)" -- although I would prefer "the neighborhood ~Kew Gardens Hills~ is south of the neighborhood of Flushing, but within the postal boundaries for Flushing." --Skol fir (talk) 17:36, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, as of 1998, the artificial absorption of other neighborhoods by Flushing (for postal delivery under the Zip code organized in the 1960s) was abolished as you can see here: List of Queens neighborhoods. So the individual neighborhoods affected have regained their independence from Flushing, and should be designated as separate. --Skol fir (talk) 17:52, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

KGH is within what would be called the "town" of Flushing. The "neighborhood" Flushing, is called "downtown" by the locals. Queens College is in Flushing. Forest Hills High School is in Flushing. Citi Field is in Flushing. It is still Flushing. Yes, agreed, the neighborhood Flushing must be differentiated from the "town" of Flushing. LIE is not the southern border of the neighborhood of Flushing. There are many neighborhoods in the area north of LIE not just Flushing, such as College Point, Queensboro Hill, Whitestone, Murray Hill, etc., and that is just the area near Main Street. Flushing also includes Fresh Meadows, Forest Hills, Corona. The Community Board is not really proof of anything when it comes to towns, the CB is a collection of neighborhoods in close proximity. I don't think using a real estate broker's advertising is a valid proof to rest your case either, this is what she is calling Flushing, which is not any official or legal designation or recognition. Besides she is wrong, 64th Ave is in KGH, or in Cedar Grove. As far as the Post Office - it was the name of the Post Office, "STATION C" that was objected to, because other neighborhoods within Flushing, the POs were called by the neighborhood name. I don't believe, nor does the article state, the objection was to the "Flushing, NY 11367" designation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.207.199 (talk) 19:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's all very good, but again, I have to take your word for it, as you have not provided us one iota of proof by way of a citation or a link that I can read, to verify that what you claim is actually true! On the other hand, everything I stated was based on links or cites that I have given as evidence. On that basis, I stand by what I have said, that KGH is not a part of the "town" either as that has now been superseded by the surrounding neighborhoods regaining their independence by various enactments of law, over the years since 1998. Please read carefully what I have provided you as proof, as there is a clear indication that Flushing is no longer the "big town" it once was. In fact there used to be Flushing and Jamaica, and nothing in between. Times have changed, my friend, and you might as well accept it. --Skol fir (talk) 19:20, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think you missed the point. The USPS says Kew Gardens Hills is in Flushing. http://usps.whitepages.com/post_office/11367. You started this by stating KGH is south of Flushing. In fact, according the USPS definition of Flushing, KGH is in Flushing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.207.199 (talk) 19:53, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymous, 69.86.207.199, I have done my research. -- BTW, did you read my friendly reminder to please sign your posts? -- Here is more proof of the limited boundaries of Flushing, the neighborhood, which as far as I can see is all that is left of the "town" -- A Google Map with an overlay of Zip Codes for Flushing, New York City-Queens, New York. This shows the borders of Flushing, which exactly follow the LIE, except for a little dip to include Flushing Meadows–Corona Park. --Skol fir (talk) 19:58, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Beers map from 1873 highlighting the TOWN of Flushing in various colors and outlining the VILLAGE of Flushing as well. KGH is located at the southern end of the Green highlighting. The road coming in to Flushing under the Race Course is now Union Turnpike. The first road the leads north from there is the Vleigh Road (now Vleigh Place). You can match these roads to the map at bklyn-genealogy-info. This is more authoritative than your handdrawn google maps, which are, by the way, just plain wrong.--69.86.207.199 (talk) 14:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speculating on Borders.

Skol, you've got it all wrong, and once again you've missed the point. The City of New York does not define neighborhoods. The smallest current political entity in NYC is the borough. There is no legality to the name of a neighborhood, and borders of neighborhoods are not fixed in stone. Therefore the borders of a neighborhood can be defined by multiple ways. 1)Its residents. 2)A homeowners association (which is still not a political entity). 3)The USPS. 4)A government agency. 5)Churches and Synagogues. etc. It is possible these will coincide or it is possible these will overlap in some areas and not others. For the paragraph you removed, you called it "Point of View", and that is exactly the point - the borders of a neighborhood in Queens County is defined by multiple points of view. (This is different than say the borders of a police precinct, or borders of a community board. or borders of the historical townships.) BTW community board borders are voted on and can be redefined, but this still does not define boarders of a neighborhood, only of the CB). The northern areas are defined as KGH by the USPS. The Pomonok housing is defined as KGH by its residents and the IS250 area is defined by the NYC Department of Education(do a neighborhood search).To call the NYC DOE's source as bogus is an insult to the DOE. None of the sources were any more bogus that any of the ones YOU used to disprove KGH is in Flushing, (which by the way it is in Flushing) and the Pomonok Housing is also discussed later on in the article. --69.86.207.199 (talk) 12:54, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the way to start a discussion: "Skol, you've got it all wrong." At Wikipedia, it is customary to respect other people's opinions, and not to dismiss them as "all wrong." I engaged you originally in a discussion where I agreed with some of your points of view, i.e. that the original borders of the town of Flushing were larger than what is now subscribed to the neighborhood of Flushing. As for your constant repetition of "KGH is in Flushing," I have yet to see any solid evidence from you that this statement is true, and all you could provide was your own viewpoint (hence POV), which is not admissible as evidence in Wikipedia. I have seen a statement at one website, that no one can agree on the CURRENT borders of Flushing. So, the discussion is pointless, and we cannot enter a definitive statement about KGH being in Flushing, without reliable sources.

The town of Flushing is no more, as it has been absorbed by the borough of Queens, as you so rightly pointed out. So what is left of the town has been broken up into many parts, one of which remains as Flushing, but with shrunken borders. I already mentioned that by law, Flushing no longer "owns" all the neighborhoods that had been established in the 60s for the new Zip code system. I already directed you, in another discussion, to the opening section of List of Queens neighborhoods, where it says that "at the urging of the citizens of Queens and with the support of Congressman Gary Ackerman" the five "cities"established for the USPS (one of which was Flushing) were eliminated. This means that those neighborhoods included in the original ZIP codes for Flushing are now free to define themselves as separate from Flushing. The town of Flushing was an historical entity, and has now been replaced by numerous neighborhoods, one of which is still called Flushing. I have never seen a reliable source that states unequivocally that KGH is in Flushing. So, it remains your belief, not good enough for Wikipedia. All the sources I have provided demonstrate that there is no agreement on the current borders of Flushing. Until that changes, such a categorical statement as "KGH is in Flushing" does not belong in this article. --Skol fir (talk) 14:20, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just because the municipality of the Township of Flushing no longer exists, doesn't mean the area isn't called Flushing. The USPS still recognizes this, and that is why when you access the USPS's website Kew Gardens Hills 11367 is located in Flushing. Do a search at usps.com. I am way passed this though, because its a ridiculous argument on your part. There are only two fixed defintions to Flushing, one is that of the original village of Flushing and the other is that of the original town of Flushing, I've showed you the maps and you can't argue that point. I could provide you with the text from the original title deed defining Flushing's (the Town) southern border as the "hills". The "hills" are defined on at least one of the two maps I already added as sources. Any other definition of Flushing is ONLY someone's point of view. But it is not necessary for the purposes of this article. One proof is sufficient and until the USPS says otherwise the USPS as proof is suffice.

The discussion has now moved on to you saying YOUR definition (or whomever put it there) of Kew Gardens Hills is the only definition. I added an entire paragraph on the different viewpoints of what "defines" Kew Gardens Hills. (It also served to disprove that the entire KGH is in CB8 or in ZIP 11367.) There is no historical proof of borders of what is now called Kew Gardens Hills, because there is no government representation or documentation in New York City in regards to neighborhoods. I can put forth the argument that Kew Gardens Hills is nothing more than a housing development starting at the corner of 77th Avenue and Vleigh Place and heading south west from there, because that is where the name for the neighborhood was taken from - from that development (although the development has since changed its name). This is the only place to define the borders of Kew Gardens Hills because surely there is a title deed to the development. What I did put forth was the background as to what is defined by different entities as to what today is defined as Kew Gardens Hills. The opening paragraph of the article sets forth "borders", those borders need to be proven. Who are you to state the borders? Did you verify that those are really the borders? I would much like for you to prove ".. on the north is the Horace Harding Expressway, [...] and to the east is Parsons Boulevard (or 164th Street). " I know I have done that, and yet you dismiss it. You can't disprove this. The best you will do is find that areas may overlap and identify with other "neighborhoods" because in this area while there may be "fixed" definitions to a CB or a ZIP there are no fixed definitions to a neighborhood. --69.86.207.199 (talk) 15:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the link from the City of New York stating neighborhood names are not officially designated: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/neighbor/neighh.shtml --69.86.207.199 (talk) 15:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Landon

Despite the sourced statement that Michael Landon "grew up in KGH", this is not part of his official bio on Bonanza's website http://ponderosascenery.homestead.com/files/castbios/joe.html, nor on hiw wikipedia page. At the age of 5 he moved to a Philly suburb, so even if he had lived there sometime before he was 5 years old, I don't think one can say he grew up.Res malka (talk) 13:26, 15 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dog Law

My family live in Kew Garden Hills for more than 40 years (72nd Road and Kissena Blvd.). It a nice neighborhood to raise kids. Recently the neighborhood has a large influx of growing families and their pets. DOGS!!! I do believe that NYC has a Pooper scooper law, but it doesn't do any good if it is not enforce. Dogs Crap (excuse the French)is everywhere on the sidewalks. I am tire of picking up after their dog for them. It is a health issue that dog owners just do not care to hear from me about it. They walk around my neighborhood with plastic bags with no intention in picking up after. What can we do about enforcing this law and health issue?

Henry Yee76.15.216.72 (talk) 23:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Orphaned references in Kew Gardens Hills, Queens

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Kew Gardens Hills, Queens's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "CHP2018":

From Fresh Meadows, Queens: "Hillcrest and Fresh Meadows (Including Briarwood, Fresh Meadows, Hillcrest, Jamaica Hills, Kew Gardens Hills and Utopia)" (PDF). nyc.gov. NYC Health. 2018. Retrieved March 2, 2019.
From Sunnyside, Queens: "Woodside and Sunnyside (Including Blissville, Hunters Point, Long Island City, Sunnyside, Sunnyside Gardens and Woodside)" (PDF). nyc.gov. NYC Health. 2018. Retrieved March 2, 2019.
From Rockaway, Queens: "Rockaway and Broad Channel (Including Arverne, Bayswater, Belle Harbor, Breezy Point, Broad Channel, Edgemere and Rockaway)" (PDF). nyc.gov. NYC Health. 2018. Retrieved March 2, 2019.
From Jackson Heights, Queens: "Jackson Heights (Including East Elmhurst, Jackson Heights and North Corona)" (PDF). nyc.gov. NYC Health. 2018. Retrieved March 2, 2019.
From Astoria, Queens: "Long Island City and Astoria (Including Astoria, Astoria Heights, Queensbridge, Dutch Kills, Long Island City, Ravenswood and Steinway)" (PDF). nyc.gov. NYC Health. 2018. Retrieved March 2, 2019.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:17, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]