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Requested move

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kevin Walker (footballer born 1989) → Kevin Walker – This individual is the prominent Kevin Walker as compared to the others. Plus that (footballer born 1989) is no more appropriate as Kevin Walker besides being a professional footballer is now also a successful charting Swedish singer and winner of the Swedish Idol series. Also possible alternative if you oppose move werldwayd (talk) 02:33, 22 December 2013 (UTC) werldwayd (talk) 06:26, 24 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
As a result of Kevin Walker being turned down, I have now moved Kevin Walker (footballer born 1989) to Kevin Walker (footballer and singer) since the first article heading does not include his equally important singing career with participation in Idol and the charting album and single. werldwayd (talk) 09:33, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Percentage for Kevin Walker's win

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It is customary to put the percentage rate by which a series winner won. However I have not found until now the percentage Kevin Walker got against other finalist Elin Bergman. Probably because of my lack of knowledge of Swedish as Swedish-language sites would be the most keen to publicize results that led to his win. Any help is much appreciated to add the number of votes cast and the percentages, both on Kevin Walker page and on the general Swedish Idol 2013 page werldwayd (talk) 12:42, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is policy to source and add references to all parts of BLPs, so how about you do that on all that you have added? Murry1975 (talk) 13:17, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think TV4 this year has published the percentage for the winner. Murry if you have issues with Werldwayds edits I suggest bringing up those at the users talk page instead of a unrelated topic on a article talk page. Regards, --BabbaQ (talk) 17:12, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Babba I have tag the section added by Werlwayds on this article as such. You are the only editor to add references to what you have added in that section. Murry1975 (talk) 21:47, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. bd2412 T 19:33, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Walker (footballer born 1989) → Kevin Walker (footballer and singer) – The present heading (footballer born 1989) does not adequately cover his music career as winner of Swedish Idols followed by a charting album (reached number 2 on the Swedish Albums Chart) and a charting single "Belong" (reached number 8 in the Swedish Singles Chart. The new suggested heading will encompass both current careers, let alone the fact that more than two thirds of the coverage is about his music career and just one third his soccer career. werldwayd (talk) 09:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC) werldwayd (talk) 10:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Per WP:D, disambiguators should be non-unique and concise. The move would make this the only article disambiguated as (footballer and singer). Don't focus too much on the current state of the article. There may be more coverage of his musical career, but that's mostly because there's a list of every song he sang on the TV series. He's still young for a footballer, and it remains to be seen whether he will become primarily notable as a singer or remain just one of very many footballers to dabble in a musical career. Glen Hoddle, Paul Gascoigne, John Barnes, and Paul McGregor are just a few such people.
Should his musical career ever eclipse his musical one, I'd much prefer Kevin Walker (singer). An awkward "and" dab should be a last resort, if we're sure neither aspect of his career predominates. --BDD (talk) 18:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. --BDD (talk) 18:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I fail to understand the logic of colleague BDD. If Kevin Walker is a more prominent as a sportsman, didn't he win Idol and didn't he have a number 1 album and a number of singles in Sweden and since we knew him as a footballer initially, we still keep the tag "Footballer born in whatever year" even if the article is two thirds about a musical career? If, on the other hand, he is a more prominent as a singer, does that negate his sports career as a current professional footballer all these years? You find "and" in a title awkward? yet you don't find awkward that we are using our own judgement POV call of dubbing him, at our will and very personal judgement, a footballer OR singer, one to the exclusion of the other? Kevin Walker said he is willing to continue both careers simultaneously without one effecting the other for now. He added that he will continue football as he loves it and give time in studio to produce more music. What is then so awkward about an inclusive "and" in title when we say "footballer and singer". This is the most accurate presently after all. There will always be some people who will argue for footballer, others will argue for the singer. each will bring you proof of which is more prominent. The only safe agreement that these two opposing factions will agree upon is that he is both, and to my belief equally prominent careers without one overwhelming the other. He might at the end continue being BOTH a footballer AND a singer for a long time for all I know. All we need to do is to acknowledge this. One does not negate the other. He is both. I stand by my suggestion of "footballer and singer" as the most accurate without the suspicious personal preference of this or that editor, including mine - werldwayd (talk) 02:32, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The only valid musical "career" of your footballers would be that of Paul McGregor as a lead singer for the band Ulterior where he used the stage name Honey. I would nominate him easily as "footballer and singer" as well. Putting the three other footballers at par with Kevin Walker seems unfair to me. John Barnes involvement was just symbolic. He wrote the rap part for one single track with New Order. He appeared in a track with many others of a Liverpool FC FA Cup Final anthem, a one-off football-related track. That's it. Not a musical career to talk about, rather novelty appearance here or there. Gascoigne's musical career was even more sketchy. He was in one particular football-related track, a comeback version of Lindisfarne featuring him uttering some verses. I fail to recollect anything musically significant Glenn Hoddle has done. Kevin Walker's case is different with a top charting album and a number of singles in Sweden after winning an Idol season. werldwayd (talk) 02:52, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - at the moment, his football career is more prominent than his musical career. Should that change, then we should consider a move to Kevin Walker (singer). GiantSnowman 19:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I would support a move to (footballer and singer) as I think that would make more sense than footballer born 1989.. too long name and he is not just an footballer anymore. --BabbaQ (talk) 18:22, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ireland/Irish

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Over the past while at various times it has been added that Walker is Irish (aswell as Swedish I may add), or of Irish origin. Lets clear this up

  1. His father is Irish, therefore Walker could claim Irish citizenship- no proof
  2. He has represent Sweden in international football terms- sporting nationality is therefore Swedish
  3. His origin musically can be viewed either where he garnered fame originally or where he is from, both Sweden

It mentions in the article his Irish heritage, so lets leave it factual and accurate. Murry1975 (talk) 10:47, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 29 June 2016

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved.(non-admin closure) Eventhorizon51 (talk) 02:29, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Walker (footballer, born 1989) → Kevin Walker (Swedish footballer) – Let's forget about his singing career for this discussion, WP:NCSP states: If there are multiple footballers with the same name, use the most conclusive of the following steps: 

   a. If the footballers were born in different years, use the year they were born.
   b. If the footballers have different nationalities, use their nationality in the disambiguation.

User:Qed237 takes that to mean 2a is the standard and 2b is only used when 2a fails. My interpretation differs. I think it's more conclusive to use nationalities in this case, as the Swedish footballer was born in Sweden and played entirely in Sweden, and the Kevin Walker (Scottish footballer) was born and played his entire career in Scotland. (And the American football players didn't play in either country.) Timmyshin (talk) 20:21, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Qed237 (talk) 20:26, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because it is more natural, and many articles use that format. The footballers are different nationalities, so it would be appropriate to disambiguate them according to that. ✉cookiemonster✉ 𝚨755𝛀 21:23, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – To use the year of birth is standard fot footballers and looking at WP:NCPDAB it states Years of birth and death are not normally used as disambiguators (readers are more likely to be seeking this information than to already know it) although this may be necessary when there are multiple people with the same name and tag. Where the disambiguation can't be resolved in a straightforward manner by such more specific qualifiers, e.g. for the two poker players called David Baker, date of birth can be added in this format: [[Name (qualifier, born YYYY)]]. Note a comma should be used and born should not be abbreviated to "b.", so: David Baker (poker player, born 1972) and David Baker (poker player, born 1986). Qed237 (talk) 21:55, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:NATURALDIS, because knowledge of a birthdate is probably something the reader does not have but is looking for, and because the naming policy says not to use birthdates as a disambiguator except as a last resort. NCSP is a bogus WP:LOCALCONSENSUS in defiance of a site-wide norms and needs to be corrected.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  22:05, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Shouldn't this nom also include a move for the Scottish footballer as well? Or do you specifically want to move one but not the other? PC78 (talk) 23:13, 29 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Sometimes the WP:FOOTY's seeming infatuation with using year of birth for disambiguation leads us into bizarre anti-common sense titles like this. Someone searching for one of these two is far more likely to know their nationality than whether they were born in 1989 or 1991. Let's help them out. I agree this should be a multi-move for the Scot as well. Jenks24 (talk) 02:57, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - using year of birth is standard, and this disambig could cause issues in the future - what happens if he decides to play for Ireland (as he that is where his father is from?) GiantSnowman 07:15, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So what if he does? Have a look at WP:CRYSTAL, chief. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This should be discretionary, and I consider nationality in this case to make it more recognizable. If the years were long historical, the year might be better. If the footballer was associated with multiple nations, that would diminish the nationality as more recognizable. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:51, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom and WP:COMMONSENSE. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - dabbing by nationality seems to me to make it easier for the casual reader to understand precisely which individual the article is referring to. Fenix down (talk) 07:53, 1 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Per WP:NCSP, the rationale for which is clearly illustrated by SmokeyJoe and Fenix down above. NCSP says use the most conclusive of the two disambiguators: the birth years are only two years apart, while the nationalities are very different. We use disambiguation to help the general reader find the article they're after: it seems pretty clear to me which disambiguator is the more conclusive.

    I'm assuming the Scottish one would be moved back to (Scottish footballer), where it had sat since 2013, and from where it was moved just before this RM began. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:38, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
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