Talk:Ketogenesis
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
[edit]This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gruskyd. Peer reviewers: Avevanduz, Majumak.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Acetoacetate not a ketone?
[edit]- The three ketone bodies are acetoacetate, beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetone. (The first two are not technically ketones according to IUPAC nomenclature, but the third is.)
I see how beta-hydroxybutyrate isn't a true ketone because it lacks a ketone functional group, but it certainly seems that carbon three of acetoacetate forms part of a ketone functional group. I've updated the page pending further discussion. Also, according to ketone bodies, acetoacetate is a true ketone body. --David Iberri (talk) 22:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
HMG-CoA error
[edit]189.42.228.115 (talk) 21:29, 13 July 2008 (UTC) On the grafic, β-hydroxy-β-methylglutaryl-CoA (HMG-CoA) is decompose in acetoacetate and CoASH, but it´s impossible because 2 carbons disapear and has lack of energy. In french page, the liase forms Acetyl-Coa, that is more plausible.
Reference
[edit]I really need the reference for the statement that the ketegonesis is initiated "if the amounts of acetyl-CoA generated in fatty-acid β-oxidation challenge the processing capacity of the TCA cycle or if activity in the TCA cycle is low due to low amounts of intermediates such as oxaloacetate" - does anyone know where I can find this? i tried all the references listed without luck. I would really much appreciate it!
My email is cduun07@student.aau.dk
thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.198.198 (talk) 11:49, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
From acetyl CoA... not faty acid breakdown?
[edit]In "types of ketone bodies" it states, "each of these compounds is synthesized from acetyl CoA", yet at the intro it says "fatty acid breakdown". How about just say acetyl CoA -> ketone, is ketogenesis? 129.180.166.53 (talk) 03:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Review
[edit]... of defects in ketone body metabolism: doi:10.1007/s10545-014-9704-9. JFW | T@lk 13:43, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
References for article expansion
[edit]I am planning expanding this article quite a bit over the next few weeks and have a list of a few sources to use as a starting point:
diapedia - https://www.diapedia.org/metabolism-insulin-and-other-hormones/51040851169/ketone-body-metabolism Metabolic acidosis - http://site.ebrary.com/lib/reed/reader.action?docID=10575608# Pain-Free Biochemistry - http://site.ebrary.com/lib/reed/reader.action?docID=10361167 Regulation of Ketone Body Metabolism and the Role of PPARα - http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/17/12/2093/htm Mitochondrial 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-CoA synthase: a control enzyme - http://www.biochemj.org/content/ppbiochemj/338/3/569.full.pdf
I intend to add more sources as I continue to work on the article, but feedback on these sources would be greatly appreciated, as I am still relatively new to the subject.Gruskyd (talk) 04:26, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Ketoacidosis statement incorrect
[edit]The section “Insufficient gluconeogenesis can cause hypoglycemia and excessive production of ketone bodies, ultimately leading to a life-threatening condition known as ketoacidosis.[3]” Is incorrect
Life threatening Ketoacidosis is a diabetic’s condition when they have excessive sugar AND excessive ketones in the blood Eismarsh 01:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eismarsh (talk • contribs)
No, it's not. DKA (hyperglycemic) is the most common form, but there are multiple causes of ketoacidosis, for example alcohol (euglycemic) or starvation (hypoglycemic) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mleonard85032 (talk • contribs) 21:52, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
The term 'carbohydrate insufficiency' is used...
[edit]... but the assertion that a low amount of carbohydrates is an insufficiency isn't supported by any citation. Maybe this should be changed into 'carbohydrate absence' or 'absence of carbohydrates'? Thanks.Wikiario~enwiki (talk) 06:26, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- "Carbohydrate insufficiency" is better. Absence of carbohydrates in the blood leads to rapid death. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
Unscientific assertions seeping through
[edit]"Ethanol is a powerful AMPK inhibitor[6] and therefore can cause profound disruptions in the metabolic state of the liver, including halting of ketogenesis,[4] even in the context of severe glucose shortage."
I have various issues with the way this is formulated. Ketogenesis seems to be one of many ways to obtain energy in the following order:
If glucose is available then this will be the fuel to be used (4 kcal/g).
If no glucose is available but ethanol is, then ethanol will be the fuel being used (7 kcal/g).
If no glucose and no ethanol is available ketogenic state will be entered and body fat will be used (9 kcal/g).
Is there any reason to associate the absence of glucose with 'insufficiency'?
Is there any reason to associate the presence of ethanol as a cause of 'profound distuption' of liver metabolism? If so, document please.
Is there any reason to label the absence of glucose as 'severe glucose shortage'? It sounds as if it's a very unhealthy state, so citations would be very welcome. Thanks Wikiario~enwiki (talk) 06:37, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- I've reformatted the above to match what I assume you intended.
- I'm also mystified by the claim that ethanol can halt ketogenesis. It doesn't seem supported by the existing citation nor any other I can find. Perhaps there are complications I'm unaware of, but my understanding is that ethanol increases ketogenesis, as its metabolism leads to accumulation of acetyl CoA and a lack of NAD+. Is it possible there was confusion with gluconeogenesis, which really is inhibited by ethanol? Pinging Mleonard85032 and Benbest. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:19, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- Also pinging User:Wikiario~enwiki. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 10:22, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
I changed the wording to remove unnecessary qualifiers. Can we stop debating it now? And for the nothing that it's worth, it isn't an "unscientific assertion" that I just pulled out of my ear. And, exactly, there is a surplus of acetyl-CoA. But that's precisely the problem; the excess NADH forces the aforementioned Ac-CoA away from ketogenesis and instead towards lipogenesis, which consumes NADH, in order to replenish the NAD+ supply. But if you do take exception to the statement then please feel free to change or remove it. User:Mleonard85032 09:33, 31 October 2020