Talk:Kawaii metal

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Kawaii metal is within the scope of the Music genres task force of the Music project, a user driven attempt to clean up and standardize music genre articles on Wikipedia. Please visit the task force guidelines page for ideas on how to structure a genre article and help us assess and improve genre articles to good article status.Music/Music genres task forceWikipedia:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forceTemplate:WikiProject Music/Music genres task forcemusic genre

one single link isn't overlinking

To editor Aleccat: Please explain your removal of the link to kawaii. It's a key part of the term and I added the link yesterday so the reader could understand what was meant. Chris Troutman (talk) 20:54, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To editor Chris troutman: It's totally overlinking as kawaii metal is a musical genre. It's like linking "dream" to "dream pop". Plus, Japanese idols, which are associated with the aforementioned subculture, are mentioned in the article, and furthermore, it's linked in that article. That is why it should not be added. Put it in other topics if you want, please don't overlink the article. --Aleccat 20:58, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aleccat: That makes no damn sense. Yes, idol culture is linked but kawaii, which is not an English word, is not. Do you want to visit WP:3 to resolve this? Chris Troutman (talk) 21:02, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I put kawaii in other topics, now it's linked. --Aleccat 21:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

... and you removed visual kei against consensus. What's your thinking here? Chris Troutman (talk) 21:09, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Visual kei isn't even mentioned in the sources of the article, but ok, I'll add that back. --Aleccat 21:12, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As these edits and counter-edits have occurred following the edit I made in linking Kawaii metal to the Kawaii article (the one topic being directly related to the other), I have been following along to see what consensus would be reached. I feel the article is now in a format that should be satisfactory for the time being.
Thank you for your contributions.
Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 02:38, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

arguing with sources

To editor Ochervet: Per WP:V, if The New York Times says the sky is green, then it is. If you think the sources are wrong, then please discuss. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:54, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the OR edit-warring on this article has to stop. --Aleccat 04:40, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Band existing before the genre?

The article said kawaii metal was invented by Babymetal in 2010, but Aldious was listed as an example even though it was founded in 2008. Their own article makes no mention of kawaii metal, instead categorizing them as power metal. I've went ahead and removed them from the band list. Feel free to revert if deemed necessary. PetéWarrior 15:58, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

This is NOT a genre of music

How can be possible that #wikiedia created this article? First at all, kawaii, really? The cute and lovely concept and fashion exists since before Japan invented this term, check it out: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Strawberry_Switchblade or any bugglegum and teen pop artist. The same thing happends with Visual Kei, that it's not a real genre of music, it's just a concept that copy New Romantic and Gothic fashion. If Japan does Not have ideas it's a our problem, why we need to follow his No original products and say: "this is a new trend"...Wikipedia, if yu want to be serious, you need to searching in the history before to give the throne of Creator to some country or person.

#albpinczo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.161.114.163 (talk) 19:46, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The genre's not all based on aesthetic, the bands merge J-Pop melodies with heavy metal instrumentals, which has definitely not been done before. Also, so many sources refer to it as a genre, to the point that even if it weren't it would still likely have it's own page; I mean that happened for grunge. Issan Sumisu (talk) 20:20, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jpop melodies? Are you kidding me, right? Jpop it's like Kpop, Cpop...they're Not a genres of music. Basically any genre of music singing in Japanese is considered Jpop (especially Eurobeat, Hi NRG, bubblegum pop, chanson, and synth pop), that it's a Big mistake, but it's normal that many people Don't questioned anything, they just get carried away by the tendency. For example: Cosplay, the term is Japanese, but the hobby or tradition was born in USA. Sailor Fuku uniform, it's actually a copy of sailor dress from UK...

Anyway, if Wikipedia likes to share fake information, that's your problem.

#albpinczo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.161.114.163 (talk) 17:58, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So you don't think the vocals in Babymetal's music are at all recognizable as being from Japan? I've never heard anyone say anything like that. J-Pop vocals are distinctively pitched and annunciation. Honestly, if you don't think this is a genre then what genre would you call the bands in the genre? Issan Sumisu (talk) 18:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A true genre of music has: structure, form, bmp, rhythm, typical instruments, lyrics and themes... If you listen Gasolina (instrumental version) by Daddy Yankee, you realized that It's a Reggaeton song. It would happen the same if you listen Storytime (instrumental version) by Nightwish, you immediately realized that it's a Symphonic Metal song. That's something that does Not happen with jpop, because they considered any western genre of music singing in Japanese, as Jpop.

Jpop vocals distinctively pitched and annunciation...Nothing new, you sould listen Minnie Riperton, ABBA, Jane Birkin, Carol Douglas, Stephanie Princess of Monaco and many other western artists that you definitely don't know.

By the way, according with you way to think, Alvin and the Chipmunks invented many genres of music.

#albpinczo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.161.113.99 (talk) 23:00, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't change that Wikipedia is based off of reliable sources, so if you'd like for this to be no longer classed as a genre, you'd have to supply a reliable source that says so. And, again, if this isn't a genre, then what genre are the bands that are apart of it? Issan Sumisu (talk) 23:14, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I find this argument ridiculous because there are like 10 sources calling it a genre in the article, and anyone who actually read the references might know that. Quite frankly, the article is well-cited and describes the genre as a fusion primarily between heavy metal and J-pop melodies. The argument presented here is invalid because it discounts other prominent fusion genres like pop punk, etc. Beyond that, this genre has received much buzz and has certainly fulfilled the notability clause. You can't just want to change something, have no proof/reasoning to back it up, and then validate it. That's blatant OR. Aleccat 02:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Aleccat Fanboys I just laugh with "fanboys" like you. It's seems like most people Don't know that music industry as fashion world are just a show bussines. There are nothing new these days, everything was done, everything is recycled and renamed. The only difference is that the media adds new "names" for the things that were invented years ago (Anyway, I Don't hope that a Wikipedia user like you understand that).

Goodbye.

albpinczo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.161.112.35 (talk) 18:55, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that you still haven't provided any valid proof that this isn't a genre, just your own view points and POV isn't considered reliable on Wikipedia. Issan Sumisu (talk) 20:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@IssanSumisu Problem? The only problem is that Wikipedia share "fake" and "empty" articles, but it's OK, I mean, everybody knows.

Hasta la vista baby.

albpinczo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.161.112.35 (talk) 22:47, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removing BiS and BiS Kaidan

I'm removing BiS from this article since their music is rarely ever "kawaii" or "metal", and has certainly never been both at the same time. The article cited to justify the inclusion of BiS Kaidan is some kind of comedy listicle from Cracked which doesn't actually mention BiS anywhere on the page ( http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-creepy-way-japan-turned-thrash-metal-into-pop-music/ ), while the article for BiS themselves talks primarily about Ladybeard, and the only reference to BiS made in the page doesn't mention their music whatsoever. It merely mentions them (in the same paragraph as Chubbiness, who are obviously not a metal group and haven't been placed in this list) in reference to the gimmicks and unique themes behind idol groups.

I'm also removing Momoiro Clover Z, who don't make metal music, since the current citation for their inclusion seems to be broken? --Screaming coffee (talk) 16:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Momoiro Clover Z isn't broken, it's just a journal article without a URL, however on current inspection, you are right that the other article does not cite BiS. Issan Sumisu (talk) 16:08, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it appears to be a reference to this YouTube video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDhFNdmVR5U, which really only mentions MCZ by talking about the way groups such as Momoiro Clover opened the floodgates for unorthodox musical styles in female idol groups. The song he introduces in the video is "Roudou Sanka", which is also... not a metal song. The video itself isn't specifically about metal music either (it also mentions groups like Especia), so I think it really can't be used as grounds to include Momoiro Clover Z in an article about metal. --Screaming coffee (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]