Talk:Katz's Delicatessen

Is This Related to...

http://austin.citysearch.com/profile/10202488/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.9.143.205 (talk • contribs)

A: No, except for the name. Marc Katz opened his deli in 1979, and it has been an Austin landmark ever since. Katz's offers authentic New York deli food in an atmosphere right out of NYC. See their website...

http://katzneverkloses.com/

So should this be in a footnote to the original New York Katz's article, or perhaps somewhere in the Austin article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.236.2 (talk • contribs)

The unrelated Katz Deli in Austin TX threw in the towel and ceased trading in January 2011 after filing for bankruptcy. 21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 20:48, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Locations

It would be nice to include them, but I haven't managed to find much info. I don't think it was on Houston originally. It definitely wasn't in its current location the whole time. Sylvain1972 18:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The original Location is Austin and Marc Katz son opened 2 locations in the Houston area, (Montrose and The Woodlands) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.100.163 (talk) 19:24, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Does is there some reason to believe the Katz's delis in Austin/Houston have anything to do with the one in NYC? Different logo and the texas ones say since 1979. Their sites don't talk about the Katz's in NY at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Questionor (talk • contribs) 14:42, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Nick and Nora

I don't recognize Katz as being in this movie. The deli she goes to is Veselka on 2nd/9th, as stated by the character --Mainstreetmark (talk) 17:58, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

K, out it goes. someone can re-add it if they feel like it. --Mainstreetmark (talk) 14:47, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Again?? Where is it in Nick&Nora. --04:22, 29 April 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mainstreetmark (talk • contribs)

It's disputed and unsourced, so I've removed it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

"5,000 pounds of corned beef"

Is it 5,000 pounds of corned beef or 5000 lbs of pastrami ? Since pastrami is a type of corned beef, this could be more that the amount of pastrami, if they serve another kind of corned beef other than pastrami... As they are a famous pastrami joint...

70.29.208.247 (talk) 07:25, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

Katz Deli is not in Kyrgyzstan or anywhere near 40.722327,73.987422.

—129.120.55.73 (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed An errant minus sign caused the problem. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:09, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Image caption

Another user made some changes to this article that were reverted by @Beyond My Ken: (BMK), who I've dealt with plenty and IMO can be extremely irrational. That first user went to BMK's talk page (the comments were recently removed).

I believe that first user to be correct, the caption needs more of a description. Beyond My Ken reverted me just now by stating there's only one facade, which is false. The other not in the article can be seen at this link 1. What do you think? ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 03:06, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

There is no need for the caption to say the name of the restaurant: The name of the article is Katz's Delicatessen, and the infobox is labelled "Katz's Delicatessen"; repeating the name in the caption is redundant and assumes our readers are idiots.

There is no need to say that it is the "Houston Street facade", because the address is listed as Houston Street, which is the front of the building with the entrance to the restaurant, and that is the only facade. Saying it's the "Houston Street facade" implies there is another facade when there is not. (On the west and south the restaurant butts up against other buildings, and the east "facade" on Ludlow Street is a brick wall with air conditioners [1]) We generally say that a photograph of a building is of this facade or that facade only if there is more than one facade to show.

What's left is when the photo was taken. Any other information is redundant or deceptive. BMK (talk) 03:19, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

But then again, what do I know, I'm "extremely irrational". I paid someone to think up the above comment for me, although I did type it myself! BMK (talk) 03:19, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

On this one, I'd have to agree with Beyond My Ken. There really is only one facade. Also, the name of the restaurant is there twice, once at the top of the infobox and once along the front of the restaurant in the photo. Also, it's pretty clear that the entrance is right there on the left, and the address is a few lines below, so I don't think the street has to be given in the caption. I don't even think the year (2011) should be there. It looks kind of silly there all by itself, and the restaurant has hardly changed its appearance in many years. If someone wants to see the date of the photo, he or she can click on the image and look at the image file. Corinne (talk) 03:31, 15 January 2016 (UTC) P.S. If there is a consensus that a caption is needed, I think it should say Katz's Delicatessen in 2011. Corinne (talk) 03:34, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I also agree with BMK, proposed addition does not seem necessary, and indeed redundant.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 04:14, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

‘[A]ssumes’ our readers are idiots’? Really? It looks as though the authors of Willis Tower, Space Needle, Paul McCartney, Elizabeth II, and indeed, numerous others all assume our readers are idiots and are completely unable to identify the subject of photographs without a caption that explicitly states what it is. The issue here isn't our readers' perceived lack of intelligence; it's simply that we think ‘Katz's Delicatessen in 2011’ sounds better. We're not as stupid as you seem to think we are, BMK, and indeed, two of the other editors here think that if there is going to be a caption under the image in the main infobox, it should say ‘Katz's Delicatessen in 2011’. If you still think that we're simply assuming our readers are idiots, I invite you to tell us why. Esszet (talk) 15:22, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Esszet BMK said that "repeating the name in the caption is redundant and assumes our readers are idiots". S/He did not say that either you or M are idiots, so I don't think you should take his comment personally. In order to persuade other editors to your point of view, you need to say more than just "it's simply that we think ‘Katz's Delicatessen in 2011’ sounds better". At this stage, we're not really talking about how something sounds, we're talking about whether or not the image should have a caption at all. Do you really think that a very nice and clear photo of the front of a restaurant that has a large neon sign across the front of it saying "Katz's Delicatessen" needs a caption that says "Katz's Delicatessen"? Not to mention the header above the photo, or the title of the article. You need to come up with something more persuasive than "it sounds better". Now, if there is consensus that a caption is needed, then we can discuss what it should say. Corinne (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

M thinks that ‘Katz's Delicatessen’ should be in the caption, I think so too if there's going to be a caption at all, and BMK is saying that to put it in the caption assumes our readers are idiots, so yes, that was an implicit personal attack. As for the caption itself, you're right; the image wouldn't need a caption if it was just ‘Katz's Delicatessen’. Because it has a date, however, ‘Katz's Delicatessen’ should be added to the caption for the same reasons that ‘McCartney’ is in the caption for the image in the main infobox in Paul McCartney's article: even though the infobox says ‘Paul McCartney’ right above the image, the article is titled ‘Paul McCartney’, and he's the only person in the photo, ‘McCartney in 2010’ sounds better than just ‘In 2010’; as you yourself said, the year looks silly all by itself in the article on Katz's. I don't see how ‘it sounds better’ and ‘it looks silly’ are really all that different; they're both just appeals to aesthetics. Esszet (talk) 16:21, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I've put "Entrance" in the caption. Hopefully that is sufficient to put this extremely silly and trivial matter to bed. (And no, Esszet, saying than an edit assumes that our readers are idiots is not a person attack.. Please read WP:NPA. If you disagree, file a complaint on AN/I.) BMK (talk) 16:38, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I've reverted BMK's edit because no consensus had been reached on whether a caption is needed at all. I think I should have done something to ensure that there is a little space below the image and before "Restaurant information", but I don't know how to do that. Corinne (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

In response to Esszet's comment about the caption for the Paul McCartney image, I think there is a difference between a restaurant front and a person. The appearance of a person normally changes much more rapidly over time than that of a restaurant. Giving a date for a photo of a living person helps the reader gauge if that is the way the person might look at the present time or has probably aged since the photo was taken. I think the date is less necessary for a restaurant that is still in business. Corinne (talk) 21:36, 15 January 2016 (UTC) P.S. I'd go along with "Katz's Delicatessen in 2011" if the header above the photo were removed. Corinne (talk) 21:37, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

You're right, but I'm saying that if the date is going to be there, it should be more than just that. Esszet (talk) 22:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I think that no caption is better than just the year.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 02:24, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

By the way, I'm fine with the article the way it is now. Esszet (talk) 22:14, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

i agree with esszet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.177.124 (talk) 19:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, we know everybody's position on the necessity of a caption except for two: Ɱ and Maunus. Do you think a caption is needed at all? Esszet (talk) 20:49, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I either prefer an actual clause or sentence or nothing at all. Merely putting the date isn't proper; the caption area isn't merely a parameter for data entry. ɱ (talk · vbm · coi) 01:20, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Your preference has no basis in policy. BMK (talk) 01:58, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Well, BMK, the consensus here is that the date is not necessary. It's being removed. Esszet (talk) 13:54, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

"Kosher Style"

Does it really make sense to describe a restaurant as "kosher style" if it has cheeseburgers and reubens? I would think "kosher style" would make sense if they weren;t kosher, but didn;t have foods that are, for lack of a better phrase, blatantly nonkosher. But if you have sandwiches that combine milk and meat, you are not in the realm of kosher style.

It's almost as if it's not strictly Kosher, but merely... Kosher style! JesseRafe (talk) 13:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps if you had read my comment carefully before responding with snark you would have realized that I didn't object to calling it "kosher style" because it's not kosher. I specifically noted what could be "kosher style" without being kosher. I objected because certain foods (cheeseburgers, reubens) they serve are so not kosher that they aren't even kosher style.

He's right. It's not kosher style. Treyfe pastrami is kosher style. Cheeseburgers are not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.165.48.50 (talk) 22:13, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Accuracy of 1888 founding date

Here is an analysis by a professional food writer that calls the 1888 founding date into question. His research looks solid. Should this be added to the article? My great-grandfather Willy Katz founded Katz's with the Iceland brothers in 1988 across the street from the Houston location. The founding year is correct.Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:21, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

History

My great-grandfather Willy Katz founded Katz's with two brothers named Iceland in 1888 across the way from the final Houston location and later bought out the brothers and became the sole owner of Katz's. He later bought the Houston and Ludlow property and opened the Katz's of today. Later, he brought in Harry Turowsky as a partner, who did not buy into the business. In the early 1920s, he brought in Benny Katz as a partner as well, who also did not buy in. Katz's was owned by Willy, but operated by all three men. Willy died of cancer in his 50s and his wife Becky helped her son Lenny take over as partner. Immediately after Pearl Harbor, Lenny enlisted in the Airforce, and served in WWII. The famous phrase "Send a Salami to Your Boy in the Army" originated during the war. He became engaged to his fiance Gladys just before he left for Europe. He became a prisoner of war, but the camp was liberated in 1945. He returned to Katz's after the war ended and married Gladys, they went on to have four children: Willa, Richard, Vicky and Robert. Eventually, Harry who had Parkinson’s brought his son-in law, Arthur Maxstein, into the deli. Benny brought in his son, Izzy. Arthur was an accountant who wanted out of the deli and so was bought out. As time went on, Harry and Benny died or retired. Afterwards, Lenny and Izzy ran Katz's, some of their children (including my father) worked as employees until the late 1980’s, when Lenny and Izzy decided to sell the deli to the Dell family. Lenny died in the year 2002. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.70.106 (talk) 16:10, 12 September 2020 (UTC)