Talk:Kasman Singodimedjo

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 13:14, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in 1945, Kasman Singodimedjo lobbied other Islamist leaders not to implement sharia law in Indonesia? Source: [1], pp125-126. A little tricky to quote as the "sharia" part is in context of other sections of the source.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Micronation
  • Comment: -

Created by Juxlos (talk). Self-nominated at 15:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Kasman Singodimedjo; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Verified that the article is long enough, that there are no plagiarism concerns through the Copyvios tool and spotchecking, and that the hook is sourced in the article. Cunard (talk) 09:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kasman Singodimedjo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Juxlos (talk · contribs) 16:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Czarking0 (talk · contribs) 00:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I'll take this one Czarking0 (talk) 00:09, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

General Comments

• I would consider adding more coverage to JIB as he was chairman during a critical organizing period. In my reading of the Laftif source I see decent coverage about JIB. Using this and potentially other sources you could construct a few sentences of what he did/supported/participated in as chairman. It may also be notable whom succeeded him and why that transition occurred.Czarking0 (talk) 00:11, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• MIAI is out of context. The reader does not now what this is. Looking at the source I am led to believe it is affiliated with Muhammadiyah but it seems a bit ambiguous.Czarking0 (talk) 00:21, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
• For some time, he was imprisoned by Dutch authorities after he gave a public speech in 1940 calling for Indonesian independence. Source says he was arrested. I think we can assume it was brief so it might be better to just say he was arrested but if you can find a source that says how long that would be better. I think this warrants investigating Panitia Peringatan 75 Tahun Kasman 1982, pp. 41–46 which is cited in the source and may contain more detail about the timelineCzarking0 (talk) 00:21, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

  4 months' imprisonment. Added the details plus the defending lawyer. Juxlos (talk) 06:07, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

• It is typical for these pages to address notable works by the authors. I would consider mentioning Renungan dari Tahanan since it is used as a source in some of your sources and presented as an influential work on his party's politics. (Madinier 10-12)Czarking0 (talk) 00:32, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

  Done. Brief mention in the "later life and death" section. Juxlos (talk) 09:39, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

• It seems like his time is PETA is very lightly covered. I question if that is fair weight since it seems to be 4 years? Czarking0 (talk) 00:35, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

  It's worth noting that PETA did essentially nothing of note throughout its existence aside from occasionally rebelling. As Kasman did not take part in the revolts, I do not believe there are any significant things of note during his time there. Juxlos (talk) 09:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

  Since this is a four year period I would add one sentence on Japanese political control. I see the Latif source has page 154

  The repressive political control continued and even became worse during

  the Japanese interregnum (1942–45). The Japanese military government

  forbade any discussion or organization connected with the politics or

  administration of the country. This severely affected pre-war political

  organizations which speedily disappeared from the public scene Czarking0 (talk) 19:59, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

  Added some details; and while at it, found some pre-war Japanese contacts with MIAI (and Kasman). Juxlos (talk) 07:54, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

  I think this is much better now. This sentence still sticks out to me as it feels like the article is assuming the reader has some prior knowledge about these historical events. although he was in Bandung when nationalist leaders Sukarno and Mohammad Hatta were kidnapped by youths. Due to his absence, PETA in Jakarta did not take any action against or in aid of the youths. I do not have a prior understanding of the timeline here so I think some more background is warranted. Czarking0 (talk) 18:12, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

  Re-reading the source material again, I think I misinterpreted the events anyway. That better? Juxlos (talk) 03:04, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

• Following the proclamation of Indonesian independence, Kasman along with several Indonesian collaborationist leaders were invited to informally join the Preparatory Committee for Indonesian Independence (PPKI) on 18 August, where Kasman and the others' positions were attacked by nationalist youths who considered them too close to the Japanese. This is a bit of run-on sentence. Also it seems like the where should be a when? What does attacked mean in this context?Czarking0 (talk) 05:57, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

  Also this is a new section and does not mention what year this 18 August comes from. I assume 1945? Czarking0 (talk) 05:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

  This whole paragraph reads like a poor summary of a historical event. I think you should consider turning it into a subsection and explain more fully what was going on. That will put Singodimedjo's role in the events into better context. Czarking0 (talk) 06:01, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

  Also I just realized all the text refers to him as Kasman. I assume that is his family name? Or at least this is the usual Indonesian naming convention? Czarking0 (talk) 06:03, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

  Indonesian names often don't have a surname-given name convention. Some do, but in the case of Kasman, his surname is quite literally his father's mononym. Juxlos (talk) 08:08, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

• permuda no reason to introduce this term and then never use it Czarking0 (talk) 00:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

  Fair enough, removed. Juxlos (talk) 09:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Sukarno Period

• Looking at Madinier p. 387 it seems like Kasman's influence on the party organization is notable. Maybe you want to add some coverage here? Czarking0 (talk) 17:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

  Added an additional half-paragraph on his time in 1950-1958. Not much about his work within the party itself, though. Juxlos (talk) 05:44, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

• Madinier p.320 talks about Kasman contributing to a shift in the conception of shura. Maybe this is notable? Czarking0 (talk) 17:24, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
• I think your presentation of the constitutional debate is a bit truncated. Madinier p.336 is clear in that the secularists had the majority but Kasman was instrumental in pushing the argument that Islam does not recognize the majority as a legitimate force.Czarking0 (talk) 18:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
• I think your coverage of his imprisonment is a bit truncated as well. You state he was arrested for the 1958 speech but Madinier p. 270 indicates he was imprisoned for at least 7 months. p 272 Also talks about the end of Masyumi as a political force. This is notable for Kasman as once he is out of prison the main vector for his political leadership is decapitated. Probably some summary of the 1959 events is warranted so that the reader can position themselves for understand the context behind his 1960 sentencing. Speaking of which, I am confused by your source. My copy of Madinier ends on p.425. Czarking0 (talk) 18:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
• Do any of the English sources cover his plot to assassinate Sukarno? I unfortunately cannot read Indonesian so I cannot really judge the coverage here. Czarking0 (talk) 18:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

  It appears to be an accusation without any coverage in the English sources. I assume it's trumped-up charges; which was why I only presented it as the reason of arrest. Can't find anything covering the conspiracy itself, if one actually existed. Juxlos (talk) 05:45, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

  I think this needs a more clear explanation. I get what you mean that the alleged assassination attempt was only the reason for the arrest. However, you then say that he was sentenced to 8 years. Is there no information about the trial? Evidence or such? If there is no public evidence then I think it is fair to say: "He was arrested and sentenced to 8 years in prison with neither a public trial nor evidence on allegations of conspiracy against the state and plotting to assassinate Sukarno." Czarking0 (talk) 16:39, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Suharto period

• I only have so much time to read these sources. However, given my comments on the Sukarno Period, I hope you can expand on this. Looking at Ward there is clearly more to the story as he remains an influential figure during this period. Czarking0 (talk) 18:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Table

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	The Politics section needs grammar and clarity work. Czarking0 (talk) 06:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)  Done
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	The Politics section should probably have subsectionsCzarking0 (talk) 06:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC) Did some resectioning. That better? Juxlos (talk) 09:41, 8 January 2025 (UTC)  Done
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	good
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	good
	2c. it contains no original research.	Did not do all spot checks pending other issues but for the sources I checked it looks goodCzarking0 (talk) 06:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	earwig check looks good
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Personal life is quite brief I think a second pass is needed to determine if this is justified.Czarking0 (talk) 06:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC) General comments above have some other ways I think the coverage can be significantly improved. Czarking0 (talk) 06:11, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	good
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	I am not 100% convinced of the neutrality but I want to do other source checking before deciding. Nothing glaring.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	looks good
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	good
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Choosen images are good. Could use more potentially.
	7. Overall assessment.	Not at this time. Holding for author to make some edits