Talk:Karl Theodor, Duke in Bavaria

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Untitled

I have renamed the page "Duke Karl-Theodor in Bavaria", in place of "Karl-Theodor, Duke in Bavaria". Duke in Bavaria was not a substantive title (it was equally held by all members of the family including his younger brother). According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles), "Where they have no substantive title, use the form "{title} {name} of {country}". Noel S McFerran 19:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 10:08, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Theodor, Duke in Bavaria → Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria — Reverting unexplain move by User:LouisPhilippeCharles to well explain move by User:Mcferran who reasoned "Duke in Bavaria was not a substantive title (it was equally held by all members of the family including his younger brother). According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles), "Where they have no substantive title, use the form "{title} {name} of {country}"."--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 22:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Karl Theodor was not THE Duke in Bavaria. The title was equally held by his younger brother Maximilian, as well as by the two sons of Karl Theodor and the three sons of Maximilian. All of the female members of the family had the title Duchess in Bavaria. Noel S McFerran (talk) 01:52, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How about "Duke Karl Theodor of Bavaria"? It's much more common than the same phrase with "in", on both Google Scholar (where the "in" option practically doesn't feature at all) and Google Books. (I'm not saying I support this option, but I'd like to see what people think, given that there's been much discussion about "common name vs. accuracy" at WT:Article titles lately - where I have advertised this discussion as a possible test case.)--Kotniski (talk) 11:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Duke Karl Theodor of Bavaria" is the man who Wikipedia calls Charles Theodore, Elector of Bavaria. Noel S McFerran (talk) 21:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would not go with "Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria". When I read that I think the article is about Duke Karl's experiences while in that country (as in "Alice in Wonderland" or "Jefferson in Paris"). Suggest a more descriptive title: Karl Theodor (Bavarian Duke). This avoids the confusion caused by the "of" vs "in" issue (which can be discussed and properly explained in the article text), and yet clearly identifies the subject. Blueboar (talk) 13:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point that I hadn't thought of. In fact he seems to be most famed as an ophthalmologist rather than as a duke, so that would make a better disambiguator - but in fact we could avoid the issue with just Duke Karl Theodor, for which no further disambiguation is required.--Kotniski (talk) 13:48, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of dukes named "Karl Theodor". Noel S McFerran (talk) 21:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing wrong with "Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria"; that's his normal name in English-language works. Citing "confusion" as regards the name of a biographical article is a slippery slope; are we concerned that some people might think that Queen Latifah reigned as a sovereign somewhere or that Duke Ellington was a member of the peerage? No, of course not; that's the person's name. It's the same with Duke Karl Theodor in Bavaria. Noel S McFerran (talk) 21:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.