Talk:Karellen

Childhood’s End quotations

I have added quotations that convey the essence of the book without spoiling an otherwise potential enjoying reading. According to Wikipedia:Spoiler warning, a spoiler "may reduce one's enjoyment of it by revealing certain plot events or twists".

The description in today’s Wikipedia article of Childhood's End omits a message that has made tens of thousands emotionally jolted when reading Arthur C. Clarke novel: the fact that humans have behaved as troglodytes in need of ET takeover. Karellen is such a human Neanderthals exterminator… Very few have noticed that Stanley Kubrick produced three films about the extermination, or eventual metamorphosis, of mankind: Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964), 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) and A.I. (2001), though he died before filming the latter. As John Brunner stated, science fiction is the last refuge of the morality tale.

Childhood's End, considered by literary critics Clarke’s best novel, ought to be filmed with Kubrickean virtuosity. —Cesar Tort 00:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

karellen@antipsiquiatria.org

merge?

this article should be merged with the main childhood's end article. i would, but i don't know how that works. the majority of this is quotes from the book that are unrelated to karellen. --dan 09:14, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I’d prefer to leave the two articles as they are (but of course I “own” this article as much as you do). If you want to merge them, you first have to have consensus with the other editors at the Childhood's End article. —Cesar Tort 14:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

why do you think this article should stay as it is? the majority of it is telling the plot of the novel via quotes. it tells relatively little about karellen as a character. --dan 06:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are technically right, but the Karellen article is more literary than the other one. That’s why I’d prefer not to merge them. —Cesar Tort 00:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i agree, it's more literary. but it's also fairly terrible as an encyclopedia article, to be blunt. and even if you argued to keep the quotes, most of them seem to belong in the main article, as they are not primarily (or sometimes at all) concerned with karellen. --dan 23:00, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

and let me add, i hate to sweep in and attack your article when you obviously love the book so much, but it simply isn't at all encyclopedic as is. sometimes the reqs for that drive me nuts, so i can understand not liking it. --dan 23:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you merge the article, you don’t have to snip it. The Wikipedia policy is simply to put the quotations in a “Wikiquote” icon. Do you have consensus on the other article’s talk page? By the way, I only work on Wikipedia on Sundays. Cesar Tort 23:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge: Sorry but this article is pointless. Everything in here belongs in the main article or should be removed. It adds nothing to the main article. Richard75 22:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't start the article. You can merge it anytime. —Cesar Tort 22:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When I originally wrote the Karellen article, I specifically tried to keep the information to the character in the book because I felt that the character was important enough to generate an article. Since I wrote it, this has become another Childhoods End article more than a character article. In it's current form, I agree, it should be merged, but in it's original form, it is a separate article and there are many articles for characters in books. Either merge it, or revert it and move the information that should be in the Childhood's End article there. Just don't leave it in it's current form. —Wyldkardde 19 September 2006

No need to revert. There is info in my contribution that does not appear in the Childhood's End article: ESP and PK development by children, that Karellen called “Total Breakthrough”, is just one example, and the quotations may appear in Wikiquote. —Cesar Tort 15:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was my hope eventually to start describing the qualities of the character, and to describe the classical motif's that this character portrays. I really want to keep this article about the character. —Wyldkardde 15:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. —Cesar Tort

"Fifth race"

Excuse me. The last sentence "Humanity was the fifth race that the Overlords assisted". Where did that come from?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.67.104.4 (talk • contribs)

An overlord (I am not sure if he is Karellen) reveals this in the novel. The Overmind requests the Overlords to help psychic races in their merging process. —Cesar Tort 21:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merged

I have merged the Karellen article into Childhood’s End. It had very little potential for expansion. As a good, concise, encyclopedic article it will probably only ever achieve stub status. Almost every quote that was on the page before is now in Wikiquote’s page on [[1]]. (By the way, that page needs some help cleaning up and formatting if anyone is interested) I have implemented a selective paste merger and formatted the information that was in the ‘Key Plot Events and Twists’ section. It is now in the plot summary of Childhood’s End. If you don’t think this is sufficient material on him, perhaps a separate section within the Childhood’s End article will be good. If you disagree with any of the actions I’ve taken regarding the Karellen article, please leave a message here or on my talk page. We can always work out a good article that deserves to stand on its own, but since Karellen has needed cleanup and merging for quite a while, I thought I would just be bold. Lebroyl 23:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure if the creator of the original article would agree with your deletion of his article (before I inserted the quotations). Can you retrieve the info for us please? I left a note in your talk page. --Cesar Tort 01:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All the old text is still available through the History tab on the article page. Just bring up the history and look for your last edit. Click on the date for that edit, and you'll see the page as it existed then. -- Kesh 01:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I will move that info to my web page and didn't want it permanently deleted. But I am also concerned for the original Karellen article (not my quotations). Lebroyl should have asked before removing that article altogether. --Cesar Tort 01:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about this guys. The discussion to merge had been quiet for a few months after most agreed on a merge, so in accordance with policy on merging, I was OK. I made sure to save all information from the page that was relevant as an encyclopedic article, and all of the quotes to Wikiquote. Anything that wasn't saved was repetitive with the other stuff in Childhood's End, or did not necessarily belong in an article. It is still in the history section for referring back to if you need to. We can always still discuss changes or bringing back the article if we really rework it. Lebroyl 16:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was talking about what another editor had written above:

"I really want to keep this article about the character. —Wyldkardde 15:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)"

He was talking of the incarnation of this article before my 30 July 2006 copyedits. —Cesar Tort 02:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]