Talk:Kamala (elephant)

This article was nominated for deletion on 13 December 2024. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Launchballer talk 01:50, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

)

... that Barack Obama and Kamala were both euthanized?

Source: https://www.goupstate.com/story/news/2018/09/14/horse-named-barack-obama-euthanized-at-world-equestrian-games/10274313007/, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/kamala-elephant-death-election-social-media-b2641616.html

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Stuff Matters, Template:Did you know nominations/The Catholic Spirit
Comment: I don't know what the procedure is for this, but I want to merge the Kamala (elephant) DYK into the Obama horse DYK which was already approved for April fools.

Created by Di (they-them) (talk) and Chaotic Enby (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. Nominator has 27 past nominations.

Di (they-them) (talk) 21:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Barack's DYKN should be reopened and this hook should be proposed there, which I will do shortly. charlotte ^👸♥📱 04:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable?

This seems to be an elephant WP:BIO1E, added notability tag. Its single source as to the trivial coincidence and all other sources cover the single non-notable event in a non-notable elephant's life. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 19:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BIO1E does not apply to non-humans. For an elephant, we use WP:GNG, which she passes. Di (they-them) (talk) 20:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fails WP:EVENTCRITERIA #4 - a routine kind of news event with a claimed viral phenomena, and the WP:GNG counter - WP:NOT § NEWS, reported death of an elephant. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:EVENTCRITERIA applies to events, not to animals. Kamala the elephant is not an event, she is an individually notable animal. The elephant's death gained her mainstream coverage, but that doesn't mean that she and her death are the same subject. Di (they-them) (talk) 20:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of the sources are from the same date, cover a single event, seem to be repeats of the same Smithsonian's National Zoo release, and all are about the same subject ---> an elephant was euthanized. So its WP:EVENTCRITERIA #4 - Routine kind of news event ... tragic or widely reported at the time ----- not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:58, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See this discussion. Multiple users think that the subject has lasting notability. There doesn't seem to be any disagreement apart from one user. Di (they-them) (talk) 18:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussions re: guidelines are not votes. You have to give a rational on how something meets a guideline. In this case is this elephant notable outside a single event. It has to be beyond the elephant being bought or sold or transferred or advertised as being at a certain zoo, every elephant has that level of notability and Wikipedia does not cover every elephant. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't cover every elephant but it can cover ones that have sustained coverage like this one. You are the only one who thinks that the sources aren't enough to pass GNG. There is clear consensus against your position. Move on. Di (they-them) (talk) 20:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One editor saw it as questionable, and no further sources other than "run of the mill life of an elephant" are put forward. I would recommend leaving the tag up since it alerts other editors as to the need for sources (and maybe they will find them). Otherwise the article can be taken to AfD. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:47, 27 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

There are currently nine sources that establish notability. Just because you don't like it doesn't make them all invalid. Di (they-them) (talk) 23:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a hint, number of sources does not indicate encyclopedic content, it has to push past non-routine coverage. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 18:05, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which it does. Most elephants don't get coverage like this. Di (they-them) (talk) 19:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Synth note

@Fountains of Bryn Mawr If I move the aside about Kamala Harris loosing the 2024 election to an efn, would you view that as acceptable solution? I understand your concerns about synthesis, but I don't want to make the reader go to an entirely different page to find out a relatively basic fact. A footnote has the advantage that we're not implying anything in Wikivoice, but we do make the information easily available. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 22:32, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I took a whack at an in between editing it down and moving it down to a short sentence in a death section. I can not find any SIGCOV that puts this past a two day pre-election punch line. This article seems to have started life as a continuation of that punchline in the form of a WP:DYK [1][2]. Now that it is another article, conformed it more to the core notability re: this elephant. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 15:22, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see what you're trying to do, and given that Kamala had so much else going on in her life, I also don't want to focus disproportionately on the election thing. I think it should be a little longer, however, because given that this is a Canadian topic, we shouldn't expect the reader to know US politics to understand it. The aside about Kamala Harris, as currently written, requires that you know who she is. In five years time, it's entirely reasonable that somebody reading this article might not know that. I also don't like adding notoriously unreliableNY Post to any article vaguely connected to politics, especially in the middle of an AfD, but I'll go swap that. I'll also go fix the other new references- they seem to have gotten a bit broken. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 06:25, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Calvin versus Chandra

The sources are conflicting a bit on the name of Kamala's son, Calvin/Chandra. It seems that most of the modern sourcing lists his name as Calvin, but I've found multiple sources from the 1990s and early 2000s which call him Chandra. I haven't found anything yet about a rename. This source[3] says that he had been loaned to the African Lion Safari for breeding as of 2005, so maybe his name changed there? I'll see if I can dig anything up. It turns out there's a non-zero number of elephants named Chandra, so this could take a bit of untangling. GreenLipstickLesbian (talk) 06:40, 17 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]