Talk:Kalmar Expedition

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"There is no mention of a swedish king"

"There is no mention of a (Christian) Swedish king, even though the crusade took place against a nominally Swedish province, and the Danish king was married to a Swedish princess, Margaret Fredkulla." This sentence seems somewhat disjointed from the rest of the paragraph. Where is no mention of a swedish king? In danish sources? Irrwichtel (talk) 18:16, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Page moved

I WP:boldly moved this page from the Swedish name Kalmare ledung to Kalmar Expedition. This name is used at least in the English abstract of this article:

Jensen, Janus Møller. 2019. «Korstog Mod De Hedenske Svenskere. Nye Perspektiver På Kalmarledingen 1123 1124». Collegium Medievale 31 (mars). Oslo, Norge. https://ojs.novus.no/index.php/CM/article/view/1615.

Let me know if you disagree. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 15:03, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What about moving it to Kalmar Crusade, wouldnt that be a more appropriate name? GusGusBrus (talk) 15:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that's okay, as the article emphasizes the crusade aspect. However, there are different criteria for what can be called a 'crusade,' and some form of papal encouragement is often expected, so it might not be entirely uncontentious. But I personally have no objection. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 06:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Hello gusgusbrus. Per WP:COMMONNAME, shouldn't this articles name be "kalmar expedition"? I haven't seen any sources calling the event "the kalmar crusade". Tinkaer1991 (talk) 19:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cited a source which directly called it such and it doesnt have a consistent commonname, but since it’s called a crusade through various sources and in the article I don’t see why it wouldn’t be fitting? GusGusBrus (talk) 20:53, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where did you cite the source? Also commonnames are what most english sources use. And i found a clear majority using "Kalmar expediiton" Tinkaer1991 (talk) 21:49, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Check the edit before the move edit to check my citation. Also where did you find this “clear majority”? GusGusBrus (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your source is in Norwegian, so it can't effect the census of a commonname. What i mean with “clear majority”, is that all English sources describing the event calls it "the Kalmar Expedition", at least of what i have seen. If you have any English sources calling it "the Kalmar Crusade", please go forth and show them. Tinkaer1991 (talk) 10:09, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is an interesting, english languag Bachelor's thesis about this event: Brinling (2022). The authors calls it the "Kalmar Expedition" throughout and cautions against calling it a crusade:

"One must be wary of labeling the Kalmar Expedition as a proper crusade, not because it didn’t contain many of the hallmarks of later crusades but rather because of its place so early in the crusading era that these hallmarks had yet to be officially recontextualized to be able to fit the specific context that the Kalmar Expedition demanded. Gratian’s widening of the acceptable uses of violence in canon law was articulated a quarter of a century after the Kalmar Expedition. [...] In the specific instance of the Kalmar Expedition, Snorri refers to it as a ledung, which is simply any sea-borne expedition carried out by raised levies, a word which would certainly go on to be applied to later crusades around the Baltic, though it does not necessarily contain crusading connotations. Whether or not the Kalmar Expedition was a proper crusade is impossible to answer because the concept of a crusade had not yet been fully formed." (p. 29)

Perhaps in such an under-researched topic like this, a Bachelor's Thesis might still be considered an acceptable source to include in a wikipedia article. Irrwichtel (talk) 11:39, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Certanly is interesting, although i do not argue that if wasn't a crusade, rather that "Kalmar Expedition" is more commonly used, hence why it should be the article's name Tinkaer1991 (talk) 18:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input! I have seen both names being used and wanted it to be more "clear" on what it was. But if the name is directly disputed against i wouldnt be against it being changed back again. GusGusBrus (talk) 15:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you cite what sources use "Kalmar Crusade" Tinkaer1991 (talk) 16:27, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The primary one i used was a book i own called "Korsfareren - Sigurd Jorsalfare og hans verden" by Trond Norén Isaksen. But since the name is directly disputed and the other one isnt ill move the page back. GusGusBrus (talk) 16:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]