Talk:Judiciary of Poland/Archive 1

Judicial independence in Poland

Does a section on this current topic belong in this article and/or at Judicial independence#Poland ? I see plenty of reliable sources on this which describe past not prospective actions:

• " There are concerns that the bill ‘risks further undermining the already heavily challenged independence of the judiciary in Poland.’"
• "The Venice Commission first expressed concerns over Poland's judicial reforms in 2016. Then in December 2017, the commission denounced the "legal schism" in Poland because "old judicial institutions de facto refused to recognise the legitimacy of new ones.""
• "Poland, for example, fell below Hungary in the ranking for the first time, the report said, "as [the] ruling conservative-nationalist Law and Justice (PiS) party continued its efforts to turn the country into an 'illiberal democracy', including by constraining the independence of the judiciary and consolidating media ownership in Polish hands.""

If the bill is or is not passed into law, the text can be edited accordingly, e.g. the tense can be changed, text can move into a 'History' or 'Background' section and updates can be made. Better to improve than throw away the work per WP:PRESERVE. Whizz40 (talk) 09:28, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@Whizz40: that bill came into law. Natanieluz (talk) 18:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Re Natanieluz's changes

@Natanieluz: Hey there, I've rewritten your changes to this article to match English grammar more

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. I didn't see the change of age of criminal responsibility in [1], could you quote the part of the article which says that? For now, I've removed that information. Also, is there an article summarizing the justice crisis in Poland? It should be probably linked from the reform of the justice system. All the best and good luck to Poland, --Martin Urbanec (talk) 13:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Hey! @Martin Urbanec:

First of all - I want to thank you for yours grammar changes, ok so:

1. You have add "when" is sentence "Since the reform of the justice system..." - so that disciplinary changes entered into force 14 February 2020, parliamentary majority in "Sejm" passed December 20, 2019. On January 17, a majority in Senate (oposition have majority there) rejected that bill. But the president signed the bill on February 4. Here you have exact explanation (unfortunately in polish only),

2. criminal responsibility: so that new law stated that disciplinary judge and Disciplinary Chamber (which was suspended on April 8 by the CJEU, then Supreme Court accepted that but few days ago when the term of the current first president terms ended, new chosen by PiS - rejected (overturned) this earlier regulation here source) can repeal immunity and accuse the judge. Here you have one of that cases when one of Polish judge is going to imprisonment for a decision, the judgment he made Section "Więzienie za orzeczenie" in that text (that means Prison for a sentence), and he has been accused of "abuse of authority" (art. 231 kodeksu karnego) That law (in polish), which says that three years of prison.

I will gladly answer the next questions (and provide sources)- if you will have one! :), Natanieluz (talk) 15:42, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply Natanieluz, and for your clarifications. I've misunderstood the three years part - the previous wording suggested that people as young as three years will be responsible for their criminal offenses, which was quite weird. I've rewritten that part too. Best, --Martin Urbanec (talk) 19:45, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@Martin Urbanec: Great!, thanks for improving this text, --Natanieluz (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2020 (UTC)