Talk:Judenjagd

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One source or two?

The 200,000 story comes from Grabowski's book, later quoted by the second source. Do we always quote an original source and sources quoting it? This way we may list 50 references, based on one.Xx236 (talk) 08:13, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There are two separate problems:

how many Jews were hiding;
how many hiding Jews were killed or delivered by ethnic Poles.

Both questions were discussed long before Grabowski. Xx236 (talk) 08:40, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnic bias and ignorance

Occupied Poland included many parts. Many Jews and many Poles were expelled from lands annexed by Nazi Germany. Many texts describe the situation in ethnically Polish parts of the General Gouvernment (not including Disitrikt Galizien). There were sharp conflicts among various ethnic groups. Volksdeutsch murdered ethnic Poles in 1939. Ukrainian nationalists murdered Jews and Poles. Reducing the Judenjagd to ethnically Polish areas is biased and ignorant. Xx236 (talk) 08:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tomasz Frydel describes the context

Tomasz Frydel explains the Judenjagd in the contex of Nazi German terror system, ignored by some historians and Wikipedia editors. Xx236 (talk) 08:32, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Longerich

The reference is a reference to Browning's text.Xx236 (talk) 08:36, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Real name?

It is really hard to find sources for this concept outside Grabowski. It is a bit hard to believe that in the well researched science of Holocaust studies, nobody else even mentioned the term before he did. And then all we have on this are two sentences. Was Judenjagd really a thing? Of course, Jews were hunted and killed, but did this term was used, and is there in-depth scholarship on it? It seems to me like this term might be something some scholars invented later, and we may be better of trying to rename this article into something like Nazi search for Jewish escapees or such. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:43, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Judenjagd - Grabowski and Frydel only.

I have found three entries Hunt for Jews:

Hunt for Jews in Paris https://books.google.pl/books?id=MzAhHLLtsDcC&pg=PA303&lpg=PA303&dq=%27%27Hunt+for+Jews%27%27&source=bl&ots=wr0_e2KqI4&sig=ACfU3U1vzCXBhsJW394amephYQOUe3fu8A&hl=pl&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy5r-rzcXiAhVjx4sKHWBtCQc4WhDoATAEegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=Hunt%20for%20Jews&f=false 2001
"Hunt for Jews" in Vichy France http://www.ens-lyon.fr/evenement/recherche/hunt-jews-vichy-france 2018
Retracing... https://asu.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/retracing-the-hunt-for-jews-a-spatio-temporal-analysis-of-arrests 2014

No connection with Poland other than Grabowski.Xx236 (talk) 10:56, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Grabowski might have popularized the name in 2011/2013, but it pre-dated this. See:

Solchany, Jean. "De la régression analytique à la célébration médiatique: le phénomène Goldhagen." Revue d'histoire moderne et contemporaine (1954-) 44.3 (1997): 514-529.
Sánchez-Biosca, Vicente. "Funcionarios de la violencia: la violencia y su imagen en los campos de exterminio nazis." (1997).
Solchany, Jean. "Des hauts responsables aux hommes ordinaires: anatomie de la «solution finale»[Christopher R. Browning, The Path to Genocide. Essays on Launching the Final Solution; Des hommes ordinaires. Le 101e bataillon de réserve de la police allemande et la Solution finale en Pologne]." Revue d’Histoire Moderne & Contemporaine 42.3 (1995): 481-486.
Bartov, Omer, et al. "der Kommission zur Überprüfung der Ausstellung „Vernichtungskrieg. Verbrechen der Wehrmacht 1941 bis 1944 “." (2000).
Browning, Christopher R. "“Judenjagd”. Die Schlussphase der “Endlösung” in Polen." Deutsche, Juden, Völkermord: Der Holocaust als Geschichte und Gegenwart, Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft (2006): 177-189.
Redick, Kip, and Mark Borchert. "Experiencing Others: Martin Buber and Neil LaBute’s in the Company of Men." Neil LaBute. Routledge, 2006. 69-76.

The ones from the 1990s seem to be coming off citations of Christopher Browning. Regardless - Judenjagd (or maybe "Hunt for the Jews" in English) is clearly the common name now (both due to NEWSORG reporting, citations of Grabowski). Icewhiz (talk) 06:14, 2 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How to control the world? One needs to control the language. Hunt fo Jews was organised by Germans and Austrians. The area was many times bigger than General Government. Collaborators of many etnicities participated, people of many ethnicites helped Jews and were murdered. Now we have the Dąbrowa Tarnowska county as a center of evil Polish anti-Semitism. Please read the title Deutsche, Juden, Völkermord, Browning was misinformed, he accused Germans, neither Nazis nor Poles.

I have verified the first page of Polish edition of Judenjagd. Grabowski quotes Browning, but he doesn't explain which book. Xx236 (talk) 06:02, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have Sánchez-Biosca, Vicente. "Funcionarios de la violencia: la violencia y su imagen en los campos de exterminio nazis." (1997), but I doubt very much you may find any Polish Funcionarios in the campos de exterminio nazis.Xx236 (talk) 06:05, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]