Talk:Joseph Leutgeb

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If someone is proficient at German-to-English translation, the German Wikipedia has an article on this musician at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Ignaz_Leitgeb.

I've added his dates of birth and death from that source. Engineer Bob 06:18, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but unfortunately the date of birth is wrong. And Leitgeb's first name was Joseph and nothing else. The "Ignaz" was caused by C.F. Pohl's misinterpreting the abbreviation J. as an I.--Suessmayr (talk) 17:33, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Current omissions

Hello, I can't find a reference source for the following items, so I'm putting them for now on the Talk page. If someone can find a legit reference, it would be nice to put it back in.

Leitgeb was a wealthy cheese merchant and was able to afford to pay Mozart for compositions, as well as lending money to the sometimes impecunious composer.

Recent scholarship dates the horn concerti in the order 2, 3, 4, 1, with no. 1 (K. 412) being the last composed. This piece is less demanding than the others, and this is believed to reflect the decline of Leitgeb's prowess either with age or with his music being increasingly relegated to a sideline.

If the soloist mentioned in the 1749 concerts was the same Leitgeb, then aged 17, it would make him almost unique as a solo performer both before and afer the use of hand-horn technique became common. This has yet to be fully and academically investigated or proved.

It also raises the question of how, where and by whom he was educated as a 17 year old would not have been likely to have been able to afford an instrument of his own.

(The cheese shop business was inherited from his wife's family).

Perhaps looking up work by John Humphries, mentioned in the previous version, might help. Opus33 19:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was Leutgeb a cheese merchant?

Leitgeb never was a cheese merchant. There are absolutely no archival sources that prove his activity in the cheese business. Only his father in law Blasius Plazeriani was a cheese monger. Leitgeb was a musician all his life and although he owned half a house, he died penniless, because he was too much in debt.--131.130.135.193 (talk) 17:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello 131.130.135.193. Kindly tell us your source for this material. I'm all for accuracy, but WP policy is to take nothing on the say-so of an editor (see WP:VER). Thank you in advance, Opus33 (talk) 19:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are the estate inventories of Leutgeb and his father in law, Leutgeb's will, the tax registers of Altlerchenfeld and the property registers of the Altlerchenfeld houses. Leutgeb (who never signed as "Ignaz", always as "Joseph"!) never was a cheesemonger.--62.47.159.42 (talk) 13:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. However, since Wikipedia doesn't allow original research (WP:NOR), we need to know where these items were published. Or at least, if they aren't published, the location of the archives where they are located. Thanks, Opus33 (talk) 16:26, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

These sources are located here: [1] None of the authors who fantasized about Leutgeb's biography ever cared to do the necessary archival research.--62.47.133.91 (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Supposed return to Vienna in 1777

Leutgeb already was in Vienna in 1775 which is proven by the death of his son Ignatz in Vienna on 10 June of that year.--Suessmayr (talk) 07:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mistakes according to Solomon

According to Maynard Solomon's Mozart biography Leitgeb was born in Salzburg and was indeed a cheese monger. Since Maynard Solomon is always right and therefore the most important source, this article should be corrected immediately.--178.191.48.151 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:17, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Solomon is always right. That is truly a good one ;)--Suessmayr (talk) 10:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further issues

The statement in fn 2 "Contrary to the assumption of Heartz (1995,277) and Fuchs (2009) Haydn did not stand godparent of Leutgeb's daughter." does not need a citation, because Pisarowitz's article is the source for this very information. The text of the baptismal entry proper proves that Heartz and Fuchs are wrong. Who is "Küstler 1996" in the footnotes? Info for the "experts": the name of this author is Konrad Küster. Zaslaw and Cowdery should not be used in matters of translation, because none of them knows German. Their translation of "Liebstes Mandel" with "Dearest almond" is truly legendary. The statement "Leutgeb for some reason never achieved financial security or fame that by rights his prowess should have brought him." betrays complete ignorance. It was simply not possible in Mozart's time to achieve financial security by playing the horn. As a matter of fact 99% of orchestra musicians in Mozart's Vienna died in poverty.--Suessmayr (talk) 10:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]