Talk:Joseph Haydn

Physical description

Haydn had a dark complexion and black eyes. His nose, large and aquiline... Using this description to describe a man as ugly, especially when he doesn't look ugly by any standard (except Hitler's) in any known portrait can be very problematic. It doesn't matter if the original reference makes this assumption or not. A dark complexion, dark eye color and an aquiline nose cannot make a person (especially a man) "ugly". I hope I'm not the only one who is concerned about the problematic subtle racism in this passage. Even if his overall appearance wasn't ideal and his medical issues contributed to that, one cannot use these words to describe ugliness. This should be unacceptable in the 21st century. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a neo-nazi website...Mozart had a similar appearance, short stature, big dark eyes and an aquiline nose but wasn't described as "ugly". Justice for Haydn! 62.4.55.104 (talk) 14:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I think you have a point, and implemented the removal. (Also, I got a "thanks" for this edit from editor GerdaArendt, so I'm not the only one who agrees with you.) Opus33 (talk) 20:45, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Keats quote

I'm moving this passage here:

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One of the most apt tributes to Haydn was spoken by the poet John Keats. Keats, dying of tuberculosis, was brought to Rome by his friends in November 1820, in the hope that the climate might help to mitigate his suffering. (The poet died a few weeks later on 23 February 1821, at the age of 25.) According to his friend Joseph Severn:

About this time he expressed a strong desire that we had a pianoforte, so that I might play to him, for not only was he passionately fond of music, but found that his constant pain and o'erfretted nerves were much soothed by it. This I managed to obtain on loan, and Dr. Clark procured me many volumes and pieces of music, and Keats had thus a welcome solace in the dreary hours he had to pass. Among the volumes was one of Haydn's Symphonies, and these were his delight, and he would exclaim enthusiastically, 'This Haydn is like a child, for there is no knowing what he will do next.'

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I feel it's more about Keats, and his sensitive reaction to Haydn's music, than about Haydn. Perhaps if we included a section on reception history (great book by Brian Proksch, 2015), this might have a place. For now, I'm a bit leery of extending the old stereotype of Haydn being child-like -- this stereotype was just getting started in Keats's time, with the advent of Romanticism . Opus33 (talk) 01:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Opus33 (talk) 01:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Suggest changing wording…

"Haydn and his wife had a completely unhappy marriage". There are many alternative ways to express this, all of which sound more professional. It's not wrong, just awkward. 2ToneEric (talk) 14:28, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Gosh. I wrote it because it is probably true. I have never seen any evidence that either party received any happiness or contentment from their marriage, and there was much bitterness. But you're probably not the only one complaining, so I will take out "completely". Opus33 (talk) 17:37, 19 February 2025 (UTC)