Talk:John Cena/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Early Career

I started the Early Career section, basically mentioning that he started in UPW in 2000, and was signed to a contract from WWE there. Plus a lot of his traning, and his signing, was filmed for the special "Inside Pro Wrestling School" that aired on Discovery Channel that year. If someone recalls that video, we can get some more info.

Also, I believe he was featured on one of them "Before they were WWE Superstars" DVDs that are probably now OOP.

Organization

Is there someway someone can take "WWE Champion", "Cena on RAW", and "Life after the Championship".... merge the 3 and edit them down? They are broken up, redundant, and ultimately seem a little too focused on his every movement. Cena has at least one match and two confrontations per week.... do we really need a sentence for every breath he takes? If this guy has a ten year wrestling career, at this rate, we'll need a separate page for every year.

What happened to Cena's back story, you know, his life story that isn't kayfabe? I always like finding out about the lives that wrestlers live outside the ring.

he's from a small town in massachusetts, same one as me. his family used to run an ice cream stand. he's kind of a hero there. i think he's wanted to be a pro wrestler for a long time. used to be called "the prototype".--Alhutch 04:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Televised match records

Does the article really need a section for Televised match records? This seems to be the equivalent of listing the results of every outing for a Major League Baseball pitcher - it's not particularly informative and creates a lot of unnecessary clutter. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:49, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

You mean his championship reigns? Every pro wrestler has those. Attitude2000 20:10, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

He from Boston you know that right

This article needs a serious clean-up. It is too much of tracking every cena match he's had since moving to RAW. You can say he engaged in a program with Jericho, and a program with angle, and then a program with edge. However, we do not need to know about every single Cena match. It would be easy enough to clean this article up, however, to the people that keep putting up every little detail about what happened on the last raw, STOP IT. this is not a wrestling site, this is an online encyclopedia

Title reign length

I don't know the exact number of days off the top of my head, but I was under the impression JBL's title reign after beating Eddie Guerrero at the Great American Bash was longer than Cena's run from beating JBL at Wrestlemania 21. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, otherwise that part of Cena's bio needs to be fixed. BronzeWarrior 07:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

JBL and Cena's title reign both lasted 280 days. DMighton 05:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

• Batista - World Heavyweight 282 days - Apr 3, 2005 to Jan 10, 2006

• Triple H - World Heavyweight 280 days - Dec 15, 2002 to Sept 21, 2003

• JBL - WWE Champion 280 days - June 27, 2004 to Apr 3, 2005

• John Cena - WWE Champion 280 days - Apr 3, 2005 to Jan 8, 2006

Links: List of Heavyweight Reigns, List of WWE Champion Reigns, List of Undisputed WWE Champion Reigns.

Hope this helps further. DMighton 05:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Fan Backlash

I added the NPOV-section tag to this section because, well, its wordy, chatty, speculative and somewhat biased. Its just not written in an encyclopidc manner and needs serious attention. It might also be a bit crystalball-ish. --Naha|^(talk) 04:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

don't mean to be rude, but you're welcome to fix it yourself :-) Alhutch 04:13, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to be rude either but, No kidding! Thats basically all of what I do on Wikipedia, fix things, but its really hard to fix EVERYTHING I come across. I'm working on other things at the moment and don't want to lose my train of thought. I was also hoping the person who wrote it would step up and fix their own gobble-te-gook. --Naha|^(talk) 04:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

okey doke, i understand completely.--Alhutch 04:29, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

:) Also, the reason I said anything at all on the talk page after adding the template, is because the template says "see the dicussion on the talk page" - so I thought there should probably be a discussion, and a reason given for why I added the template in the first place, hehe.

--Naha|^(talk) 04:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

i think we have a discussion going now.--Alhutch 04:45, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I think some of the backlash can be attributed to the fact that Cena pretty much blew through every single challenge no matter how ridiculously stacked the odds were against him. Also his work rate is severely questioned/considered inadequate by many fans which makes it aggravating to see him be put over talented wrestlers such as Kurt Angle on such a consistent basis. Personally I'm of the opinion that wrestling and storylines are both very important, and although Cena is a good entertainer, he simply was not putting out matches you'd expect from the world heavyweight champion. 09:56 January 29, 2006 Trunksoul

Ok, thats nice, but this "discussion" is about the POVish and chatty/non professonial way the "Fan Backlash" section was written.--Naha|^(talk) 13:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I made an edit regarding the fan backlash during last week's Raw. This was the edit in question: 24 February 2006. I was not vandalising, just reporting relevant information as to what happened. I was not the only one who notice the boo's. In fact, according to a fan report Cena was booed even more heavily as Raw went off the air when he cut a promo on Triple H. Also according to this report, he was booed so badly during a post Raw dark match with Edge, that people decided to leave. I am not in any way anti-John Cena, and I was just reporting what happened on that Raw as it related to the fan backlash.Sarge 2.0 13:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I also have made this edit, but the marks in charge of this article insist on making this peice more STORYLINE based than "real life" based, and that includes denying Cenas' decreasing popularity and fan backlash, until an equal place for both real life and storylines come into play here, this article holds no credibility and neither does anyone who contributes to it just to disguise Cenas' weaknesses Dr. R.K.Z

Why was the fan backlash portion deleted? It's a relevant portion of John's career. This would be like deleting the "Controversy" sections in the Triple H and Jeff Jarrett pages because you are a fan of the wrestlers.Sarge 2.0 20:23, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a Cena fan but I see no point in putting up something based on what you assume is being chanted by the crowd and what you think might be going on. I mean it is irrelevant since you can't always hear what the crowd is saying with the WWE and just because some fans in one arena boo Cena that doesn't mean all the fans around are turning against him. As for this Cena not as popular as Triple H maybe that's true but that's most likely because Triple H has been around for longer and has more fans.Night_Bringer

It's not what I assumed...it's what everyone heard. Hell, Vince has even acknowledged that he has been booed, and he was booed VERY HEAVILY on the last Raw during his promo. I suggest you watch it again. Also, I believe deleting the entire section on his career was a bit much...not ackowledging a wrestlers faults by getting rid of his career section as a whole is some circular ass logic if you ask me.Sarge 2.0 21:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I watched it throughly, and I heard the crowd booing him AND chanting "Cena Rocks". The fan mood towards him is clearly divided. The fans booing or cheering him still has nothing to do with his in ring performance and or style, I mean look at Edge he is extremely hated by the crowd but he is still a proficiant wrestler in ring. Night_Bringer

I was a professional wrestler for seven years, and Cena is NOT, in any way, JUST getting booed because of his stale pus, bad character, bad raps, and general Superman booking. Objectivly, he is a car wreck in the ring, his matches are basic, repetitive, and dont' carry enough convincing realism to buy any crowd above five years old. In effect, he IS Hulk Hogan, only without the Japan experiance, in that area Hogan actually developed a move set but never really used it in the states because he did'nt need it to draw money.

Edge is booed in the GOOD way, as in "we love to hate you", Cenas' boos are "DIE, ROCKY, DIE" chants, which means hes' as over as X-Pacs' porn video

You clearly have no clue of this matter, no clue of what a good professional wrestler is, what it takes to be an innovtaive professional wrestler who can reinvent him/herself, and certainly are completly loyal to Cena to disregard and underline the fan reactions hes' been getting. Go and biuy his dwindling album, it sure as hell needs a boost. Just remember whos' contributed to his downfall. Prattling girls and five year old brats.

And change that "Cena rocks" part to "Cena sucks", I rewatched that tape again and found no such evidence that "rocks" chant was remotley as loud as the real deal Dr. R.K.Z

In response to Night Bringer, I heard no "Cena Rocks" chants. If you watch the promo, Triple H was clearly the one garnering all of the face pops, while Cena was booed before he even picked up the mic. Most of the things that came out of his mouth were met with boo's from the crowd, so I don't know where you're getting this "division" from. Also, I never said a single thing about Cena's in ring ability. This is about the Fan Backlash, and the fact that some editors choose to act like it does not exist. Come Wrestlemania (which is in Chicago, big smarky town), I think you'll be in for a surprise. Once again, I'm not here to bash Cena, just to bring a relevent portion of his career into the article.Sarge 2.0 01:44, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Well clearly I've run into a bunch of people who are quite convinced they're right and I couldn't possibly be even a little right. So I'll just shut up about this since there's no point in arguing with you. But I'll say in going that I definetely agree that this 'fan backlash' thing is speculative and biased and this little section here just backs me up. Night_Bringer

Actually, I believe I've been trying to be pretty civil here, there's no reason for you to get so dismissive about it. Objectivity, unfortunately, does not equal all positivity. If there are things going on with Cena's career that aren't exactly rosey, they should still be put in his article. It wasn't speculation or bias on my part, because I have none. However, you're coming off as biased and in denial. Just my observation.Sarge 2.0 12:07, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The bottom line is that the "Backlash" article would become POV-ish in time. If you want to blame someone for Cena's change of reception, blame the Smarks. Because outside of the Internet Wrestling Community, there is no real reason to hate Cena. He's the WWE Champion, he hasn't done anything major to upset the fans, plus he's a face. Cena's got skill, but he just needs to tune it. If he didn't have any skill at all, he wouldn't be in the WWE.
PS: Whoever wrote, "I was a professional wrestler for seven years," can you back that up with facts? Because you might just be another smark looking for a good time. 69.181.81.102 07:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

As long as the fan backlash is acknowledged in some way in the article (like it's going to be acknowledged by the booking at SNME), I'm fine with that. Of course, you can't blame the backlash entirely on the smark community. I sincerely doubt that every single person in the arena's where Cena has been booed is a smark. Even marks tire of formulaic champions after a time, because as performers they lose steam. It's not Cena's fault at all, but it isn't the fault of the IWC either. It's the confusing booking at WWE that's at fault. Sarge 2.0 17:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to a RAW live event in Waco, Texas tonight. When I come back on Sunday I'll let yall know at least how the Texas crowd views him. Not that I'll be able to prove it either way, I guess ..but it'll be something. /shrug --Naha|^(talk) 14:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Results as promised for the RAW Live event on 3/11/06 - After moving to three different locations in the arena in order to try to get "good" pictures I did not hear a single "boo" for John Cena, if there were any, they were severely drowned out by te cheers. Not only were his "typical" fans (women and children) cheering him on, but I was surprised at the large number of college age and middle age men rooting for him. I also saw several men with John Cena shirts on as well. The majority of the fan posters I saw were also Cena/Chain Gang/and "Lita is a hooooo" which I will also lump into the Cena category. Heh there was also one poster that said "Edge is a man ho." Triple H had the 2nd most posters/t-shirts with Eddie Guerrero in a close 3rd.

At the event Cena defended his title against Edge w/ Lita interference (which got her thrown out of the arena), and Cena of course kept the title. I can't remember the last time a title changed hands on a non-televised event. Shelton Benjamin (without Momma!) also defended his Intercontinental title against RVD. Other matches included Big Show vs. Triple H (HHH won, it was a street fight), Ric Flair against Carlito (Carlito won, and incidently I was about to puke after seening about 20 kids of varying ages running around with blue apple shirts and Carlito floofy hair wigs), 3 members of the Spirt Squad vs. Val Venis, Viscera, & Eugene (Spirit Squad won, 3X3 tag team match), Kane beat Chris Masters, Trish Stratus & Mickie James beat Victoria & Candice Michelle in a Bra & Panties match - Trish was about to hold up Mickie's hand in victory but Mickie ran away pouting. Chavo Guerrero beat Tyson Tomko. The Eddie Guerrero chants from the crowd are still going strong, and before and after the match Chavo pointed upwards and mouthed something.

Honestly, the response that Cena got when he came out was amazing, I've never seen anything like it. The arena was shakeing/vibrating - nothing like when they introduced any of the other wrestlers, although Ric Flair's response was pretty good too. They sold out of Cena merchandise fairly quickly as well. --Naha|^(talk) 22:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I guess it goes with the territory. Waco must be a non-Smark city. 69.181.81.102 05:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Smarks or not, wrestling talent isn't what sells the most tickets. The best storylines and best actors are. Pro-wrestling is about performing and kayfabe, not about talent. The performers who get the best crowd response and sell the most merchandise/bring in the most money are the ones that WWE pushes to be top stars and championship holders.

Also, I don't see the point of a fan backlash section. I mean come on ..should we go through EVERY wreslter article and keep it up to date with whether or not they are getting booed or cheered by the majority of fans and whether or not a particular ICW likes or dislikes them? No, because its rediculous and not encyclopedic and subject to change on a daily basis. This isn't the place for it.--Naha|^(talk) 05:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Uhhh, the fan backlash is relatively widespread, and is a relevant portion of his career, so relevant that it has affected his championship reign, and may affect his character. Removing the fan backlash section would be like removing the controversy sections from the Jeff Jarrett, Triple H, and Ultimate Warrior articles. And if you believe that professional wrestling outside of the WWE is based upon marketing, kayfabe, and mic skills you are sorely mistaken.Sarge 2.0 21:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

How has it effected his reign? What proof do you have from anyone inside the WWE of this? It "may affect his character" is speculative - something encyclopedias are not. The way people have gone about writing this section at certain times made it seem like (to anyone reading who doesn't have an actual clue) that Cena had all but completely lost his fanbase which is extremly far from the truth. As much as I've tried to edit it to keep it neutral, it just gets edited back to POV. Also, I did not mean to reference Pro wrestling as a whole when I said it was all about marketing and kayfabe, I'm just talking about WWF/WWE and WCW. But Cena is WWE so that is all that is relevent and very hard to dispute. --Naha|^(talk) 04:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Uhh, Edge won the title at New Years Revolution because the boo's were getting almost unbearable. This has not only been on insider reports, but has been acknowledged by Vince himself. They put the title on Edge because Cena's character as the champion was getting a bad reaction. It has been stated, and is accepted as the truth of the matter. Do you honestly think Edge would have gotten a three week title reign, only to lose it to Cena after the fans began cheering him again (Edge being the perfect heel to get fans behind John) otherwise? Also, it's been stated inside the WWE that a double turn is an idea that is being considered from Wrestlemania 22. Especially with the confusing reaction from Raw two weeks ago.Sarge 2.0 22:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

What I *think* is not relevant. What I, or you, can prove is. Yes, I've read lots on the matter, and I don't disagree that it is the most likely probability. However, proof of such things can only come from inside WWE. I haven't been able to find it. But, you said it was "acknowledged by Vince himself?" That’s perfect, that would be proof ...link me to the source or at least cite it so others can find it and then I'll gladly back off. Just show us when/where Vince said this, and that’s all it takes. These wrestling articles are so full of fan trash that the real articles have become incoherent gobble-te-gook filled with speculation and no references. If people would actually reference what they write, there would be few problems. --Naha|^(talk) 00:55, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Why would you ask me to cite an article, and then dismiss the type of article you knew I was going to cite? Meltzer and PWInsider have reported that Vince has acknowledged these things, and that the booking is ready to integrate this information if need be at Saturday Night's Main Event. If the booking does nothing of the sort, and fan backlash goes unmentioned tonight by anyone, I will back off. But if the backlash is brought up during the show like the insider reports say it would be, as according to plan, I feel that I was justified in my write up saying that the backlash is being acknowledged backstage, and that it *is* happening.Sarge 2.0 13:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

How can I dismiss "the type of article I knew you were going to cite" when I had no idea what you would cite? I didn't know where you were getting your information and its extremly possible at any given time that I am not aware that certain information has been released from inside the WWE. It is my job, however, as an editor of Wikipedia to help ensure we do not report innaccurate information. Asking for citations is justified and expected.

You said that "Vince himself has acknowledged this." That is a very bold statement, and requires a source to be credible. So basically, that means those words have come out of his mouth at some point, or he has released a written statement. An interview with him or a magazine citing he had written them a letter saying as much (or something similiar) is sufficient. The bottom line is, no matter how much you or I or fan001 wants to believe certain reasoning to be the cause of something, we can't read Vince's or anyone else's minds. Does PWinsider say that "Vince said x" and "Vince said y"? Then, as I stated above, great ..that is proof, because I'm going to assume a credible source like PWinsider would not (purposely) report false information. Now cite the issue of their magazine where this was stated, or link to an article on their website and you don't have to remove anything from the article, just add a citation and footnote. But please, don't twist my words. Now excuse me, but I'm going to go watch A.M. RAW :P --Naha|^(talk) 14:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

March 8th Wrestling Observer Newsletter: "Vince has decided to begin to acknowledge that Cena has been recieving boo's from crowds, and that some consider him a poor worker. The booking has been told to work this into his angle with Triple H, which we saw the start of Monday on RAW". The "start" portion that was talked about was the infamous confrontation where Triple H made the Reebok's comment, and was cheered over Cena. PWInsider reported basically the same thing on the same day, but with a change. That the acknowledgement would begin at SNME. Whether or not I should buy that last portion is up in the air. But there's a source for you, with the acknowledgement of the boss.Sarge 2.0 16:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Cool, wish it was within the context of an interview with him or something, because it could just be them "speculating" too, but this will do. I'm a Cena fan, but that Reebok comment had me me rolling, it was awsome. In fact that whole confrontation was great. HHH makes such a great heel.

Again, I don't necessairly doubt all the patch-work Vince is said to be doing to "get fans back on Cena's side" but with the nature of the "Superstar" wrestler artilces on Wikipedia (i.e. all the "fanboys" showing up to add their 2 cents into each article ..."omgz Cena suxxors" "I love Cena" or whatever) we seem to have to do a lot of cropping and editing to keep it factual, keep bias and opinons out etc. Thats the reason this section of the talk page started originally. That is not by any means what you were doing, but it starts to all run together after awhile and eventually people have to start reporting sources. Thanks! --Naha|^(talk) 22:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, like I said, I'm trying my best to cover all portions of Cena's career. I'm not here to hate on Cena, which is why I removed some vandalism earlier today. Hopefully the Cena article can stay vandalism and POV-free for the most part. Cheers!Sarge 2.0 23:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Ehem Sarge what's this about Michaels making a comeback when Cena ran back in on the March 20th show? He'd started a comeback then got the 7 10 split into a ring post and after that he was easy prey it was AFTER that that Cena ran in in time to save him from a flying elbow and pedigree. It's not like Cena ran in and stole Michaels' thunder. I tried to make that edit to make it more accurate but it was deleted. Why? Night_Bringer

I wouldn't know. Not only did I not watch the Main Event on the March 20th Raw, but I didn't make that edit.Sarge 2.0 03:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

This fan backlash section needs to go back up. There is no doubt that Cena is being booed, if you all watched the 2006 Hall of Fame, you could see Cena had the most boos he had ever had in his career.

I know, I watched it on WWE.com. It's crazy, the amount of boos he's getting. I'm also in favour of putting the section on Fan Backlash back up. This is going to directly affect his career if it keeps up. Sorry, it actually already did when Cena lost the title at New Years Revolution. They had Cena lose the title to Edge, as he is the most hated heel in the WWE, then have a rivalry with him to get his fanbase back, then win back the title. And if came across as sarcasm, sorry, I wasn't trying to be. --Killswitch Engage 09:39, 2 April 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage

It might be a notable article, but it will still become a central hub for POV information from unregistered users, which means more editing and revisions to be made. In other words, it will become a liability to this article. Blacklist 02:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It was already a liability to the article, which was why it was removed in the first place. It couldn't stay neutral and invited many revisions. A question to ask yourself is, a few years down the road, will it really be that notable? No, it won't. Notable information to be included in pro wrestler articles - titles they have held, notable feuds, alliances and managers, and interesting or noteworthy kayfabe, promotions or switching to a new promotion and heel/face turns. As stated before, most everything else is fluff. --Naha|^(talk) 03:40, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

In a few years down the road, Cena is going to be remembered for the kind of heat he drew, just like The Rock and X-Pac are remembered. Together, they still don't equal the kind of treatment Cena is receiving from the fans right now. Furthermore, Cena is supposed to be the company's top babyface. This is not fluff, it's a phenomenon of such magnitude no other wrestler has experienced, and we can't pretend it doesn't exist forever. --Antrophica 18:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not pretending anything. I revert bad edits on site, period. This "fan backlash" section has yet to be written on a factual basis and stayed that way for more than 30 minutes since it all started. The reason I don't feel bad about leaving it out of the article is because in the grand scheme of the article, its not that important. I got tired of reverting it to something approaching factual, it was easier to just remove it. --Naha|^(talk) 05:14, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

You don't just remove an entire section because you can't cope with maintaining it. You ask for help. It's not your cross alone to bear. I'm reinserting it and I intend to make sure it maintains as neutral a point of view as possible. --Antrophica 05:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

At one point it had gotten so bad it didn't even make sense - a bunch of gobbletygook and flames. At the time it needed to be removed and I stand by that. --Naha|^(talk) 05:58, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Kudos for bringing back this section. It's really not up to us to predict what in an article will be important in the future because we obviously can't know that. Because this is an ever-changing Web encyclopedia, it's more apt to constantly update entries to reflect current concerns. To use the John Cena as an example, someone who just watched RAW and was surprised by the top babyface being booed may want to come here and see what that's all about. In it's current form, the Fan Backlash section is fair and factual, even if Cena fans may wish it could be ignored. I suggest the section remain in the article. --DetectiveFork 1:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

WWE was just here y'day in Milwaukee. and I'd say 75% of the crowd was cheering him and 25% booed him. But when it was him and HHH in the ring it was about even... maybe more for HHH. But he showed his appreciation and a big toothy grin that he didn't have while in Chicago. Also is it revelant that there was an untelevised impromptu Street-Fight Championship match on the 4-10 RAW between Cena and HHH, which Cena won. (User:benw1 8:38, 11 April 2006 (CDT))

Theres no doubt that Fan Backlash exists towards John Cena and with good reason, therefore I believe it is ridiculous for people (ie cena fans) to come on here and claim otherwise. Wikipedia looks at the facts not the opinions of a mark therefore it is a FACT that John Cena is receiving Fan Backlash, it is only the reasons why that are up for discussion.

• I just want to say that the Cena fan backlash section of this article is very well written and it clearly states facts from a non-biased, neutral stand point. Whichever side of the fence you may be on (and I am against all Cena's negative reaction), I believe this is an important section to feature on John Cena's Wikipedia page.

I added this point, which has since been deleted with no explanation.

Whether the fans are cheering him or booing him, they are all contributing to overall crowd noise and interest. Everytime John Cena appears in an arena or participates in a match, he is receiving some of the biggest reactions in the WWE's history. His matches are avidly scrutinised and the crowd are vocal on every move or event in his matches. A generic face versus heel match up would never usually generate the same level of crowd-noise, and certainly not on each and every landed move (either performed by the face or his opponent) as is the case in Cena's matches.

What does anyone else think of this point? I feel it is an important point to make as it explains why he remains a face when everybody expected a heel-turn by now, and why the WWE are keeping John Cena as their main face wrestler. If somebody wants to write something similar based on that I feel it would help the article. There's a chance that this may have been deleted by someone who is biased and doesn't want to believe that John Cena is good for the WWE in any way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.34.136 (talk • contribs)

The point is unnecessary and a tad POV-orientated. I think the reason Cena remains a face is because Vince McMahon is unwilling to give in to the fans; he wants the show to go the way he wants, not the way the fans want. He's a bit of an egotist, and quite stubborn when it comes to anyone challenging his opinion. But all that's a POV, too, and I wouldn't document it in the article. --Antrophica 02:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

The Fan Backlash section would only grow, as he always get different reaction from the crowd, such as recently on RAW (4-10-06). He had more cheers than boos and it was clearly noticeable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.42.11 (talk • contribs)

He's been getting the same crowd reaction for months, now. Cheers and jeers. Most times the jeers drown out the cheers, a few others, like this week's RAW, it was the other way around. We'll document all this accordingly, but within the boundaries of a NPOV. --Antrophica 03:52, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Citations needed

There are a lot of claims in this article that need to be cited, preferably using the footnote method that I have started at the top of the article. Someone tried to cite this:

Cena announced that he would use his rematch clause against Edge at the Royal Rumble. Vince McMahon is still using Cena as a face for the time being but is ultimately confused and angered by the recent negative fan reaction to Cena's character (according to ProWrestling). His future use is in question, as his negative reception from fans in New Jersey has left McMahon speculating how to market a face who is quickly becoming a perceived heel. This situation mirrors that of The Rock in his early WWE career.

but the citation goes to the main page of ProWrestling.com, not the article where this information supposedly came from. It needs to point to that specific article. The whole John Cena article needs to be sourced. I plan to work on this some, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks, --Naha|^(talk) 21:29, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Go back in their archives to about a week after New Years Revolution... you'll find it there. DMighton 06:48, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Manhunt

Shouldn't John Cena playing "Big Tim" on Manhunt (UPN Reality Show that premiered August 1 2001) be mentioned in this article?

Five Moves of Doom

Please edit this in order to fit in the correct context of the Five Moves of Doom. Be sure to mention where the term comes from (and if you don't know who was originally dubbed as having the FMoD, then that is just sad) if you intend to keep using it.

References: John Cena profile at prowrestling.about.com, the John Cena IMDB link, and Manhunt at TV.com

Is this section even neccessary? Bret Hart has his move sequence too and no one puts in his article. Maestro25 01:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

MySpace

Which MySpace is really his?

• This one?
• Or this one that's listed on his wiki page

Reply: John Cena gave the address to this one on an episode of "Five Questions with The Champ." If I remembered correctly he spelled out the address to his fans so there would be no more confusion. --Naha|^(talk) 04:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

First Paragraph?

Granted I don't know that much about wrestling, but is the term "gun" used (and linked) properly in the first paragraph? It doesn't seem right, and the article it's linked to is just the article for artillery. --Inaxdaze 03:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Good find. I made the correction. --Jtalledo (talk) 13:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

OVW Finisher?

Just out of curiosity, what was his finisher in Ohio Valley Wrestling when he were under the "Prototype"-gimmick?

A variant of the Fisherman Suplex, dubbed The Protoplex, by Cena.

Protobomb - which is a far better move as a finisher than the F-U/Fireman's carry takeover

Fan Backlash

Whoever added the little bit at the end, good point. I never thought of that. --Killswitch Engage 22:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage

Are you calling the thing on fan backlash nonsense??? --Killswitch Engage 19:46, 31 March 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage

Are you addressing me? If so, please say so in the future, I hate guessing! The fact that it ("fan backlash") exists is not nonsense, but the way that section in this article is written is nonsense. It does not deserve more than a one or two sentence mention in the article, and it should be written from the perspective of fans as a whole, not an unmeasurable amount like "most" and "most forums" because that is simply absurd and not factual because there is not an accurate way to measure it. For every forum you can link me that is full of people who hate a particular wrestler, I can link another one back where everyone loves them. The fact is that his fan reactions are "mixed" and nothing further.

I attended a live event earlier this month where there were no audible boos the entire time Cena was out there - and not just from where I was sitting, I made my way around to several sections of the arena in an effort to get pictures and listen for boos with the specific purpose of reporting back here. I'm not saying the (boos) don't exsist, I've heard them on an episode of RAW, but I've also heard lots of cheering and seen lots of people (not just women and children) with Cena posters. (WWE confiscating negative posters does not negate the fact that many people bring postive ones, thus proving his fanbase is mixed).

If people would stop adding the section written as if his entire fanbase is gone, it would be one thing. But the POV can't seem to stay out of it, so the section is better gone. As far as the body of the article is concerned, the important information, about this wrestler or any wrestler's professional career consists of titles they have held, notable feuds, alliances and managers, and interesting or noteworthy kayfabe. Other significant factors such as promotions or switching to a new promotion are also important. "Most" everything else is fluff. --Naha|^(talk) 20:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

It's called disgusing the truith and Cena's apologists will see the return of that fan backlash article whenever they like it or not. Dr. R.K.Z

You are sorely mistaken. It has nothing to do with "disguising the truth" I've already stated the valid facts about why the section has been removed and refuse to reiterate it for the umpteenth time. --Naha|^(talk) 07:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As controversial as the Fan Backlash section was, it's going to inevitably return. No wrestler, living or dead, in his career, not even X-Pac or Jeff Jarrett, has received heat of this overwhelmingly negative magnitude. After WrestleMania 22, it doesn't seem like there's any coming back from this. -Antrophica 06:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Naha you are JUST PLAIN IN DENIAL, how many responses given here have stated there IS a fan backlash against Cena, and here I am one of Cena's fan's stating this. I'm just here because its like revisionist history, you just can't change history or present like here just because you don't think its relevant in your stately opinion. Yes Cena is getting booed but I'm still his fan!!-anonymous

I have to agree with the people here about the Fan Backlash. I can't remember any other wrestler who is the companies (or in this case the brand's) top face getting such a hard time from the fans on such a regular basis. It's been gradual. At the beggining of his title reing he was immensly popular from what I could tell and hear. There was a lot of anti-Cena sentiments from the crowd near the end of last year but there were still plenty of Cena fans too. I was at RAW during November in Sheffield. When people were coming into the arena, before the show started, there were lots of "Cena sucks" chants. There were plenty of Cena fans still though. This seemed to be the case at some of the PPV's too. Survivor Series was quite bad if I remember right. By New Year's Revolution it was almost completly anti-Cena. That's not to say that every fan, everywhere hates Cena but there's no doubt that his popularity has decreased hugely since he won the title. There have been major faces who have recieved a bad response from time-to-time depending on the time and place but not as much of an extent as Cena. To not mention this in some way would be just be stupid. Chad, 3rd April 2006

Do you people even read anything I write, or just see I posted something ..anything ...and refute me on "principle"? I've stated on more than one occassion I am aware of the booing Cena has been receiving, so I'm not sure what "denial" you are refering to. Unfortunatly, the fanboys can't write a neutral paragraph to save their life - hence the problem. The few times I have attempted to leave it in the article in a neutral form, it has been reverted or more crap has been added to it. Grow up, learn to write and leave your opinions, fanboyisms, fluff and other speculation out of the articles or quit making edits at all. This is the first time I've ever come anywhere near to losing my temper since I started editing Wikipedia, and now I see why so many people have left lately - anyone with Internet access can put anything they like in an article, and if there are enough other clueless people out there, it will stay in the article no matter what - this is the flaw of Wikipedia. --Naha|^(talk) 05:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

So help me please John Cenas' life outside the ring is just diverse hmmm... so is mine. tells me a whole lot. Why even have that there?

Because after every heading in an article, there should be text, typically an introduction of sorts, before the next heading, ask any technical writer. --Naha|^(talk) 08:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Why is this POVish section back AGAIN? It was deleted accept it's not required. Night_Bringer

Eh, its actually fairly well written now. No real objections at the moment. I was just fed up with dealing with it - not just the constant reverting it invites, but also having to constantly defend my stance here.

My only problem with the section currently is that I don't think the notable "backlash from fans" occurred till after the 2006 Royal Rumble, not "after he was drafted to RAW." But I'm waiting on Antrophica to comment on this. --Naha|^(talk) 09:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

On second thought, no it was earlier than that - and after re-reading it, Ant didn't mean that it started the second he was drafted, just that it didn't happen till after he moved to RAW. At least I think.--Naha|^(talk) 09:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

He was defintely being booed after being drafted, but only in a couple situations, namely when Christian Cage talked smack about him, as well as during the ECW: One Night Stand PPV. But it wasn't consistant until a couple months into his feud with Kurt Angle. I'd say around early November is when the problems began.Mshake3 23:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

It mention (on WWE.com) that Cena brought up the fan's reaction on RAW last night. It's in the open for sure now. Chad, 4th April 2006

Well, yeah ... any one of the thousands of people watching could tell you that, its kind of public information. --Naha|^(talk) 09:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

No need for the sarcasm. I only mentioned that I read it on WWE.com becuase I didn't watch RAW last night. Just thought I'd mention it, that's all. Chad, 4th April 2006

Sorry, this whole discussion has made me defensive. I'm just tired of it - There is no debating the fact that he's getting boos, that doesn't need a source as anything that happens on TV is public information. As long as the section stays NPOV and refrains from undocumented claims such as "Vince took the title away from Cena at New Year's Revolution to try to get his fan base back" everything will be hunky dory. <---I don't doubt thats what happened, but anything short of someone from inside WWE stating it is mere speculation. That was my whole argument in a nutshell.--Naha|^(talk) 09:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

That's fair enough. I agree that it does need to be NPOV, although I would say that everyone here does. I suggest we leave things till we see whether the fans reaction becomes involed in the storylines more; possible heel turn for example. Things will become more apparent on the way to Backlash anyway. Chad, 4th April 2006

I think it is fairly simple to explain why Cena has become so despised. Think about his Smackdown days. He would come up with creative raps and was an anti-hero and not the "white-meat" babyface he is now. I think the WWE has gotten lazy with furthering character development once the characters once they have become established, mainly with faces. See Boogeyman, JBL, Kane, Big Show and a slew of others. It is bad when The Spirit Squad gets more mic time on a week to week basis than a Boogeyman or a Big Show. The WWE is putting heels on a pedestal right now, what do they expect? They are taking away from faces left and right.(199.66.11.253 10:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC))

Theres no doubt that Fan Backlash exists towards John Cena and with good reason, therefore I believe it is ridiculous for people (ie cena fans) to come on here and claim otherwise. Wikipedia looks at the facts not the opinions of a mark therefore it is a FACT that John Cena is receiving Fan Backlash, it is only the reasons why that are up for discussion.

I must retract what I said earlier there is indeed a fan backlash against Cena. It's now very audiable and quite clear. Though I've never been that big a Cena fan I'm even finding myself becoming irritated with him, for me it's the whole 5-6 moves of doom thing. It's way too predictable, cause he almost always wins his matches with the combo. user:Night_Bringer

Cena at Wrestlemania

Hi, perhaps this will be useful to some WWE fans in helping improve the article. Reading this article and some linked ones makes me realise that is just way too much to know about professional wrestling, but you guys do a good job!

Anyhow, I saw two of the Wrestlemania matches and this was one of them. I looked up John Cena on Wikipedia as I thought the whole thing was a total mess that didn't seem to go over properly. I was wondering if there was a reason. Clearly, it seems there was... I thought the "fan backlash" section was interesting, certainly it explains why Cena was brought in as a working class Chicago blue collar... guy with a tommygun? ... (in order to gain sympathy from the local audience...)

I thought the match was really boring, though I don't have a lot to compare it to. Certainly the end did not seem like the finale for a main event... aren't there supposed to be fireworks, music, etc. ? Is it possible they were cancelled during the match because of the booing fans... (which I thought was funny)... and the end of the match did not seem right either... could there be a good reason why it was done the way it was (e.g. injury, booing fans) or is that just the way they decided to do it? Finally... is this guy considered a good wrestler, among those who are in the know? Or is he just something that WWE thinks the fans will lap up?

Thanks for anyone who can provide the answers, I just love it when spectacle theatre goes horribly wrong :-) - Abscissa 21:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

He's pretty much despised by smarks, who cite his lack of in-ring ability and insipid gimmick. It would seem the rest of the fanbase is turning on him as well. There are a bunch of reasons for this utter clusterfuck: (1) Cena's predictable matches, where he battles "the odds" and always ends up victorious. (2) The predictable fashion in which he executes his moves; his pacing. (3) His hardcore thug rapper gimmick, despite coming from a middle-class white family. (4) His major opponents: Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Triple H, all of whom are extremely popular despite being heels. (5) He's held the title for too damn long.

I like Cena. He's a decent wrestler and possesses excellent charisma, but the WWE management is trying to force him on the fans, despite that they've already grown tired of him. I don't see it working. I see it being detrimental to his career. Cena needs to take the same route Edge took (Edge was on the verge of catching the X-Pac curse as well; it was so bad he was booed in his own hometown on one occasion) - turn heel. I strongly doubt there's any hope of salvaging Cena's status as a face at this point. --Antrophica 00:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

The Protect

When are we gonna remove the protect that is on the page?????--Killswitch Engage 04:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)Killswitch Engage

Finishing/Signature Moves list

I think that all four of the last moves should be removed, at least. Cena has done the moves a few times, but they are hardly signature moves. It somewhat appears biased against the idea that Cena has a limited moveset. I mean, it seems a little silly to put every move the man has ever done. I think either it should be removed or we should add in a hammerlock and a irish whip.

--Sentinel boy 00:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, for the time being. But the spinebuster remains, as he does it often. --Antrophica

This is true it is called signature moves not every move the man has ever used. This whole page is biased though. --Stupify 07:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)