Talk:John Bercow/Archive 1

Archive 1

Four edits

I have edited this article extensively for four reasons:

• 1) Bercow was refered to as "John". This is inappropriate when writing an article about someone who most readers will not personally.
• 2) Bercow was refered to as being an Opposition Spokeperson - this is the wrong terminology.
• 3) The list of his appointments read like a shopping list.
• 4) It omited his clashes with IDS

(Steve 01:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC))— Preceding unsigned comment added by Alligators1974 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

September 2006

In September 2006 John Bercow MP became a Patron of the Tory Reform Group (TimothyCrockford 15.04, 20 January 2007 (UTC))— Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyCrockford (talk • contribs) 15:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Height?

As a relatively new Wikipediast, I'm not sure of the etiquette for this, but is it appropriate to note that he is exceedingly short?— Preceding unsigned comment added by AuntFlo (talk • contribs) 06:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Have added his height as 5'6", sourced to times. It is appropriate, I believe.93.96.148.42 (talk) 17:56, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Appropriate for what purpose? We don't do this for any other MP, do we? We don't mention Hazel Blears' height, and she's tiny. Please look at WP:NOT to see what is considered worthy of inclusion here. Rodhullandemu 19:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Expenses

Have reworded the expenses section, as it was very misleading - according to theyworkforyou.com, he's actually (relatively) very cheap.... Pentop (talk) 10:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Jewish Taxi Driver

Why is he listed as the son of a "Jewish" taxi river instead of just a taxi driver? Is there some kudos attached to being a Jewish cabbie? (Aurumpotestasest (talk) 19:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC))

I think it's more to do with his Jewish descent then his taxi-driving descent ;) ninety:one 19:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Anything on his mother?--88.109.156.13 (talk) 19:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Is he Jewish? He may have a Jewish father, but this may not clinch the argument since under Jewish religous law your status is determined by your mother. It's surprising if this has never been mentioned since AFAIK there has never previously been a Jewish Speaker. PatGallacher (talk) 21:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

He was described this evening by David Cameron as the first speaker of "the Jewish faith".--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can recall, he attends church on a regular basis... Let's leave out any mention of his religion until we get an official bio from the House. ninety:one 21:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

No need to wait. The sources are good.

• "Bercow becomes first Jewish speaker of UK House of Commons" (Jerusalem Post) [1]
• "Cameron rightly marks the "milestone" of Bercow being the "first person of Jewish faith" to be elected as Speaker." (The Spectator) [2]

--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Both are merely re-reporting what Cameron said, and the Mail has now hinted that he may in fact be athiest[3]. As I said, let us wait for some official statement from the House or similar. ninety:one^{(sch acct)} 10:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Possible photo for article

I've found a photo of Bercow from Flickr, and from what I understand Flickr photos can be used on articles. However, I am very new to Wikipedia, so I'm not sure if I'm right nor I am sure how to upload photographs. I thought to raise the photo here, in case it is appropriate and someone else could then maybe upload it instead.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenaye/1505727645/ Renoti (talk) 20:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Sadly the image is fully copyrighted. You could try asking the author though. ninety:one 20:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your response and advice. I would ask, but taking a look at the image permission process it looks awfully complicated, and I'm afraid I don't feel as yet confident enough to try it. Sorry about this. May I ask if any of the other Flickr photos of Bercow (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=John%20Bercow&w=all) are ok? Renoti (talk) 20:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Again, no: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=John+Bercow&l=comm&ct=0&adv=1 Sorry! ninety:one 20:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to have troubled. Thanks again. Renoti (talk) 20:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

What would be better, for Wikipedia and for its overall mission, would be for someone to take a picture of Bercow and release it as free content. Wikipedia improves, and the world gains more free content. Uncle G (talk) 23:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Ask the people at the local WikiProject for Buckingham to search for him and take photos. Jolly Ω Janner 00:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

or e-mail BERCOWJ@parliament.uk Francium12 (talk) 18:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll do my best, contacts etc. *taps nose* ninety:one 20:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

 Done Feel free to crop if you want. ninety:one 22:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Malicious vandalism to article

Bercow was elected Speaker this evening and I am guessing some people who don't like him aren't too happy. Someone with IP 93.96.236.8 changed "Rumours of defection" to "Rumours of defecation" which seems can only be maliciously intended. I've changed it back. (Sorry I only realised afterwards I should have corrected it via "undo" rather than as a new minor edit). --Whimsical Oracle (talk) 20:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your work, but in general you don't need to post on the talk page if you're just undoing vandalism :) ninety:one 20:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Expenses

This whole section is kinda original resreach. Anyone got any other sources?©Geni 21:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• It's somewhat disingenuous to describe Bercow as occupying 'joint first position' in terms of the Additional Costs Allowance. Looking at the 2007/2008 data he was one of 143 MPs who claimed the maximum and a further 86 were within 1% of the maximum. Pontificake (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect pronunciation of Bercow

Bercow does not pronounce his name rhotically, neither does most of the press. It is pronounced /bɜːkəʊ/, without the r. I don't see why Wikipedia standards should dictate that British names be pronounced the American way. That's ludicrous. --77.211.177.171 (talk) 10:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

It's ber-co, I'm not going to piss about with that IPA nonsense, so spelt phonetically. ninety:one 17:31, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Neither of you appears to understand our transcription conventions. Please read the key we provide to explain it. kwami (talk) 18:07, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I understand it enough to be able to spend only five minutes decoding a six-letter name, but not enough to dare try to write one. And by the way, your edit summary was totally misleading: you did not undo my edit, rather you appear to have corrected the incorrect IPA symbols (thank you!). I shall assume it was accidental, but you must appreciate how that could be interpreted. And I'm not sure what the IP was on about. ninety:one 20:53, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Is this the same guy

from here : http://order-order.com/2009/06/19/friday-caption-contest-bercow-rangers-edition/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by HappyDudeThe MadTim (talk • contribs) 13:11, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Conservative Party membership

The lede says this: "Prior to his election to Speaker, he was a member of the Conservative Party." But I don't see this claim included in the article body or supported by any source. Is it accurate? His position as Speaker certainly required him to relinquish his affiliation with the Party in the Commons and to "resign the Party Whip", but I had assumed his continued membership of the Party was a personal and private matter. I would appreciate a source to clarify this and/or some expansion or readjustment of the article. As far as I know, personal political party membership in the UK is not required to be in the public domain, is it? He certainly did resign from the front benches, in 2002, but did he also resign from the party at that time? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:59, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Have now found and added two sources: University of Bedfordshire which says he "rescinded" his membership, and BBC which says he is "no longer a member". Martinevans123 (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Addition of unsourced controversial information

On three previous occaisions in the last few days User talk:04Egerton L has added unsourced information of a controversial nature "In his youth, Bercow was active in the Conservative Party and was a member of several right-wing groups within the party". This may or may not be correct but without a reliable source as per WP:BLP it should be deleted. Despite been advised 04Egerton L who has a history of doing this before and has previously been blocked does not bother to provide such information nor to use edit summaries. So will now start warning this editor. If s/he wants to discuss it then come here an seek to gain some concensus first to a properly cited change to the article.Tmol42 (talk) 21:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm a bit perplexed by why this should be the subject of a ban. Describing Bercow's youthful background as "on the right" of the Conservative Parliament is hardly controversial - if anything it's an understatement - and his youthful right wing leanings are so widely documented it's almost common knowledge. Here's Bercow himself describing his youthful politics as "hardline right-wing" [4] and here's the Telegraph, using the same "hardline right wing" phrase and linking it to his membership of groups universally considered to be right-wing [5] Here's the Beeb calling him "ultra right wing" and quoting him acknowledging he agreed with Enoch Powell on immigration. [6] And here's the New Statesman clarifying that he was secretary of the "immigration and repatriation committee" Monday Club, which sought to encourage the repatriation of non-white people. [7] Dtellett (talk) 21:19, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Right wing

Bercow is a atheist, humanist Jew. He was a Conservative, but now is close to the Labour Party. How exactly was he "hardline right wing"? The evidence appears to suggest he was always on the left of the Conservative Party.Royalcourtier (talk) 03:11, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

He also stood for the leadership of the Monday Club on a Powellite platform of "assisted repatriation" of immigrants, which is far greater evidence of his political views than his ethnic origin. More importantly, reliable sources describe him as formerly very right wing, a view which has not been contested by other reliable sources (or indeed Bercow himself) Dtellett (talk) 14:15, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Views of members of the Monday Club

What does "citing the views of many of the club's members...as a reason to leave" mean? The views of fellow members of the Conservative Monday Club is not a reason to leave the club. That he disagrees with the views of other members (about what?) may be a reason to leave.Royalcourtier (talk) 03:13, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

marriage?

Don't get bees in your bonnets please but is there any notability to his wife having had an affair with his brother and moving out of the family home? Or is that just tabloid tittle tattle? If it is the former, separation of martial partners would likely warrant inclusion as there are numerous other subjects of articles separated, legally or otherwise. If it was merely tabloid tittle tattle, kindly disregard this note but I would appreciate it if you did so without biting my head off. I will simply note that the Telegraph (or Torygraph if you must) is a newspaper of record, not a gossip rag. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11611277/Speaker-John-Bercow-prepares-to-divorce-wife-Sally-over-affair.html 66.67.32.161 (talk) 19:17, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

So he's actually poised to announce that he is to divorce his wife. How lovely. Maybe we can discuss again, if and when he actually does make his exciting announcement. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:08, 12 April 2016 (UTC) p.s. we might bite your head off if we knew who you were.

You are a cheeky one Martinevans123 but since the article is from over a year ago (and there are other papers' stories to back it up) I would presume we could do so now (by which I mean you or some even *wittier* lad(ss) 66.67.32.161 (talk) 21:41, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Oi, mate, who are you calling wittier?? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

IPA

The International Phonetic Alphabet is needed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.93.189.42 (talk) 17:02, 19 December 2016 (UTC)