Talk:James Ferguson (diplomat)

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On 9 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Jim Ferguson (public servant) to James Ferguson (diplomat). The result of the discussion was moved.

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Requested move 9 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus to move to James Ferguson (diplomat). (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Ferguson (public servant) → Jim Ferguson (Australian ambassador) – or Jim Ferguson (Australian administrator). The "public servant" designation is vague and rare on Wikipedia (less than 150 articles that I could find), and I'm sure all of the other politicians listed on the James Ferguson disambiguation page would say they were public servants too. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:17, 9 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. We have a bit of a misunderstanding here. The Australian Public Service is what most countries call the Civil Service and in Australia civil servants are called public servants. The disambiguator is therefore completely accurate. See Category:Australian public servants. However, I would not object to Jim Ferguson (diplomat), which was his main career. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, after some further study, it seems that practically all of the "(public servant)"s are Australians (with a smattering of New Zealanders). And "(civil servant)" seems to be a mostly British phenomenon (about 375 articles). However, I still think "diplomat" (or similar) would be an improvement for this article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:21, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

British articles use "civil servant" as a disambiguator because in the UK civil servants are a specific thing. In many countries, anyone who works for national or local government may be classified as a civil servant (even police officers), but in the UK only actual members of HM Civil Service (i.e. the administrative service of the national government) are ever called civil servants. Even local government administrators are not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:09, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination and would likewise support the alternative option — James Ferguson (diplomat) — per Necrothesp. The parenthetical qualifier "(public servant)" is indeed vague, even if augmented to specify "(Australian public servant)". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:54, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@SafariScribe and Roman Spinner: Question: How did we end up with "James" instead of "Jim"? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wondering the same thing. I certainly didn't suggest it and don't support it. Jim appears to be his common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When moving the main header, Safari Scribe must have followed the ultimate vote that was cast in which I posited the diplomat's name as "James Ferguson". Among the eight inline cites under "References", four list him as "James" and four list him as "Jim". Since he does appear to be more commonly referenced as "Jim", I would second Necrothesp in supporting the follow-up move of James Ferguson (diplomat) → Jim Ferguson (diplomat). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 17:57, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so a move to Jim Ferguson (diplomat) looks like an uncontroversial refinement. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:03, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]