Talk:Jean-Victor Poncelet

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Poncelet's biography says that he has been capturedd at the battle of Battle of Smolensk (1812).Pierre de Lyon 19:36, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Poncelet's father was not poor

The sentence "born in a poor family in Metz" is not true. His biographer Isidore Didion says that his father was a lawyer at the Metz Parlement, a rather high position. Actually he let us understand that he was a "natural" child of this rich person. Poncelet was educated in a poor family in Saint-Avold. I need the help of a historian to decode the puritan style of his biographer. Let me translate what Didion writes:

• Jean-Victor Poncelet is born in Metz on July 1, 1788, his father Claude Poncelet, a lawyer at the Metz Parlement, has, for reasons that are not connected with this story, to send him, very young, to Saint-Avold, where he was set in the excellent family Olier etc.

Pierre de Lyon 20:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have access to that particular source (though I have difficulty reading it, as I only can read French at an elementary level). In my rewrite, I hope I've fixed it. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 21:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Comments from Randomblue

The article is quite interesting. I've listed some work to be done from a first read. Some of the points are trivial, others are more crucial and need attention and discussion. I'll wait to see what you think before I do anymore. This guy has done much more than Lemoine, so more work will be needed to achieve comprehensiveness.

• In the infobox there is a problem with : "Doctoral students : École d’Application of Metz, University of Paris, École Polytechnique"
• In the infobox, "Known for : Traité des propriétés projectives des figures (1822), Industrial Mechanics (1829)" French and English titles are mixed. BTW, has "Industrial Mechanics" been translated in English?
• "(1862/64) Applications d'analyse et de géométrie" Why are there two dates? Also, the dates should be formated consistently (see "1822–1848" for example)
• "Taton, Rene" Is an accent missing?
• "In 1848, Lemoine became commandant of his alma mater" should that be Poncelet? :)
• "Faculté des Sciences" should have a wikilink
  • Where's the article on that? Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• His name is written both on top and below his picture, one needs to be removed.
• I always like pictures, I think we need more. Maybe a mathematical one, and a nonmathematical one.
  • I added the standard Ecole Polytechnique one (I really like that particular picture; two other articles I've worked on contain it ;)) and the mathematicial one should probably be in the planned "Contributions" section, which I plan to start writing later today. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• His signature seems pretty perfect to me (a bit too much to be a signature). Where did it come from?
  • I believe the bottom of a cover page of one of his works. I'll have to try to find it later.
• Abbreviate page consistently. (stick with p. or pp., I don't like pg.)
• "Early years", "middle years", etc. is good but maybe something more specific about his life would be better
  • Title sections changed. What do you think? Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• the article never really seems to say anywhere what exactly was the maths he was doing. I found a few interesting details at sources #3 : "He published Traité des propriétés projectives des figures in 1822 which is a study of those properties which remain invariant under projection. This work contains fundamental ideas of projective geometry such as the cross-ratio, perspective, involution and the circular points at infinity"
  • As I said, there'll be a "Contributions" section I'm writing later today. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
• Brianchon is discussed on http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Poncelet.html but not in the article
• Poncelet pentagons : see http://www.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9890(193812)45%3A10%3C677%3AAEPOTP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C
• Poncelet-Steiner theorem : see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Poncelet-SteinerTheorem.html
• Poncelet transverse : http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PonceletTransverse.html
• Poncelet porism : http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PonceletsPorism.html
• Poncelet's Coaxal theorem: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PonceletsCoaxalTheorem.html
• Poncelet prize (2000. francs)
  • Really nice finds - the contributions section will be a long one, I can tell. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

List of websites with information about the guy (please add stuff)

• http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/POL_PRE/PONCELET_JEAN_VICTOR_1788_1867_.html
• http://www.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9890(193812)45%3A10%3C677%3AAEPOTP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C
• http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Poncelet.html
• http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/469548/Jean-Victor-Poncelet
• Notice sur la vie et les ouvrages du général J. V. Poncelet, par M. le général Didion. in Mémoires de l'Académie nationale de Metz 1870 (50e année / 1868-1869; 2e série) pp. 101-159. Pierre de Lyon (talk) 17:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

More comments from Randomblue

Here are things I get from reading the PDF. Tell me what you want me to expand/clarify.

• The fact the he is a general should maybe be made in the very first sentence.
• when he was very young he was separated from his family and went to live with another family
• Anecdote: when still ten, he saved some money to buy an old watch. To study it, he dismantled it. After studying it, he built it up again, and got it to work.
• he was very authoritative with his friends who considered him highly
• had he just started to learn to read and write, he discovered by chance a book of Racine. He liked it so much he read it again and again, eventually learning it by heart.
• He read many famous French authors: Boileau, Molière, Corneille
• he went to the Lycée impérial of Metz after study very very hard
• he had one goal in mind: reach the école polytechnique
• in 1806, after much work, he won the second prize of geometry
• he fell sick at the Ecole polytechnique
• he wrote Notes de Géométrie while at X (the ecole polytechnique)
• he was very clear in his proofs
• he wrote poetry
• he prepared for war
• he had a project to built a fort on the island of Valcheren

More to come later. Randomblue (talk) 22:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

• • Hm, could you give page numbers for these? Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 23:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

They are all within the first 15 pages. I mean, you can trust me more or less, right? If there is a specific fact you want to include in the article, I'll translate the passage exactly and give the page number.

Erm, well, I do need to cite the specific pages in the article, which is why I asked... ;) Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 02:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Poncelet biography written by Didion should be taken as a reference as it was written by one of his best friends and collaborators with access to direct information. Some facts are in contradiction with some other biographies. N. B. Didion was my grandgrandfather. Pierre de Lyon (talk) 16:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The thing about Didion's biography is that it is very praising, and I fear some POV.

How he was prisoner

Here what is in Didion on P. 166:

• During the night of the 18th November 1812, the members of the excellent troops who have not followed the Marshall (Ney) had no hope to escape the Russian army; they were cut, they have to find an arrangement, and after long talks they capitulate and were declared prisoners.

He was then interrogated by General Prince Mideradovich. Pierre de Lyon (talk) 19:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• 
  Isidore Didion

• • Hm, interesting. Thanks, I'll add this to the article. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 02:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Actually I translated a small part. Much more is said in Didion, about his participation to the Krasnoi battle. Pierre de Lyon (talk) 06:28, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Could you translate a larger part, then? My French is quite bad, and I need all the help I can get in making this article comprehensive. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 17:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
        • I will try, but as the text is rather long and I am busy right now, it may take time and I do no think it would be really productive. I prefer to write directly in Wikipédia. Which aspect of Poncelet life are you interested in and I should start with? Pierre de Lyon (talk) 18:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
          • Right now I'd like to know less about the math and more about his life and what he did - the "contributions" section I'm writing later, which will contain the math. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 01:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Jean-Victor Poncelet/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The article is bad because it contains very few facts about his biography and in addition it contains false facts. I already corrected two of them. Pierre de Lyon 21:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC) Fixed in my rewrite, I hope. Nousernamesleftcopper, not wood 21:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 21:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 19:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)