Talk:Jean-Pol Martin

Autobio

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

Dear Amdin, Of course I'm the one who sets up that page about myself. For me, it's not important to be in the Wikipedia Article pages, but it's very practical in order to inform people who are interested in my work. My name have been in the German Wikipedia for 4 months and in the french Wikipedia too (look at the links, please). If you look in my userpage, you perhaps will understand why it's practicle for me to have a article too: so I can refer for the official questions on the "Jean-Pol Martin" article and communicate about projects in my userpage! Thank your for your understanding!--Jeanpol 05:22, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry. Read the Wikipedia guidelines: if you are notable, someone else will write a page on you. You do have a personal user page, remember. CoolGuy 05:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I understand your position.But in the German Wikip and in the French one, I didn't write the articles about me! An the article Learnig by teaching in the English Wikipedia is not from me either. My interest is not to be considered as "famous" or not in the English Wikipedia but to use the network possibilities. Of course I can request some colleague, students or friend of mine to set up an article about me in the English Wikipedia, but the things have to go speedy. The burocratic rule in Wikipedia is clear: nobody is allowed to set up an article about himselfe. But times are changing! For me it doesn't matter if my name is in the article, but for the communication and the speedness, it is very important. I don't know how old you are. If you are young, my chances to be understood are perhaps better! For instance, if my name is as article, I can set up a link on my name in the article about my work "Learning by teaching", and so on... An other useful application is, that I can cancel all the personal informations about me in the userpage and set a link on "official informations are in the official article" and so on.--Jeanpol 05:37, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin is a very special person and I think, that he should have a place in the Wikipedia article pages. I‘m student at KSFH München (social work) and Prof. Martin is my lecturer (and I’m proud about it). This term I had the internet-project „Internet- und Projektkompetenz". A group of students (me aswell) went to Salerno/Italy to collect informations about social problems in the Southern part of Italy and put afterwards the reports and informations in different homepages. In autumn 2005 we’ll present our results at the university Eichsätt. We always stayed and stay still in touch with Prof. Martin via email and in so called „Foren“ with group-discussions. There is now a good connection to the university of Salerno. A group of students with their lecturer will visit in autumn 2005 the KSFH München and the university Eichstätt and Prof. Martin. The communication, information and knowledge network (exchange of experiences, know-how and interchange of views) is very important for us students. The internet is very useful for the contact with other students, universities and. Prof. Martin transmitted me how to use the internet (and Wikipedia-Encyclopedia) to come fast on informations. (user: Gabriele, 31rst July 2005)

Again, sorry, the rules state that an entry will eventually be created if the subject is notable enough. It's up to the Wiki admins and possibly others to determine if this qualifies. If you need to have a page in English about yourself, I suggest you set up your own web site. CoolGuy 05:47, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I understand very well. Wikipedia is a very, very, very serious thing! And people who works there are very, very, very serious too! As a scholar and scientist, I have to be quick and see network-opportunities for the future. I have to be inventive "speedy and networky". Anyway I can use my userpage...--Jeanpol 05:56, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I will try to mobilise some people in order to discuss with you if I'm important or not! But I need a little bit of time. By the way: the same discussion takes place at the beginning in the German Wiki, and later in the French Wiki too;-)))--Jeanpol 05:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

One thing I don't understand in Wikipedia: if I'm not notable, nobody will try to find my name and my article is not disturbing. If I'm notable, a lot of people will be satisfied to get informations about me. Why is the Wiki so burocratic? On the one side, an article can help a lot, on the other side, he can not disturb! Strange Wikipedia-Logic! --Jeanpol 06:12, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

If somebody wants to help me and is looking for more informations, here the "offocial" article in the German Wikipedia: Jean-Pol Martin, and here further informations: LdL-homepage

Actually, I don't understand this debate. Indeed, in the German and French Wikipedia others have written the article on Jean-Pol Martin. So this does respect the Wikipedia guidelines. Since I've always understood the English version of Wikipedia not as a version for native speakers of English, but for the entire world, there should be no problem in adding an English version of the entries on Jean-Pol Martin. As a scholar interested in didactics methods at university I can say that Jean-Pol Martin is without a doubt one of the most important personalities in the area of didactic methods -- at least in a number of European countries. -- sinatra 10:56, 29 July 2005 (CEST)

Mr. Jean Pol Martin is well known, not only at the university, but also in several projects. For example his method "Teaching by students or pupils" is so well known and accepted, that the Baverian Ministry of Education changed the school regulations to allow "Learning by Teaching" at all types of schools. It is part of the Modus21-Project. Mr. J.P. Martin is advicing teachers at many schools. [Comenius]

Prof. Dr. Jean-Pol Martin is a very special person and I think, that he should have a place in the Wikipedia article pages. I‘m student at KSFH München (social work) and Prof. Martin is my lecturer (and I’m proud about it). This term I had the internet-project „Internet- und Projektkompetenz". A group of students (me aswell) went to Salerno/Italy to collect informations about social problems in the Southern part of Italy and put afterwards the reports and informations in different homepages. In autumn 2005 we’ll present our results at the university Eichsätt. We always stayed and stay still in touch with Prof. Martin via email and in so called „Foren“ with group-discussions. There is now a good connection to the university of Salerno. A group of students with their lecturer will visit in autumn 2005 the KSFH München and the university Eichstätt and Prof. Martin. The communication, information and knowledge network (exchange of experiences, know-how and interchange of views) is very important for us students. The internet is very useful for the contact with other students, universities and. Prof. Martin transmitted me how to use the internet (and Wikipedia-Encyclopedia) to come fast on informations. (user: Gabriele, 31rst July 2005)

Hey, Cool Guy! I don't understand your rules. The sense escapes me! Why is nobody allowed to write articles about their own work? You should be thankful for people, who write articles (for free) about their projects. Nobody can explain those better than that person, who is actually doing it. What use is it for example, when I explain, what the president thinks about his own election manifesto, when one has the chance to hear it from the president himself? Jean-Pol-Martin is a great professor, who is in steady contact with his students. He helps many people to get out of the passive student-behaviour and become an active person with the wish to better their surroundings. We owe him much! In addition to that he tells every student and collegue, how important Wikipedia is, because it is essential to share knockwledge and to work together. He really is a great "promotion" for you. Besides, as Mr. Martin says: Everybody, who is not interested in his work, can just ignore his articles. But in the german wikipedia he is among the most important pedagogues. Well, if you still have a problem, then I can just put the article about JPM into the wikipedia. But in my opinion, you should just change the rules. (Birgit Bauer: Student at the university in Munich) 2nd of August, 10:39

@Joachim, Wolfgang, Gabriele and Birgit. Great!!! At the moment I'm in France (internetcafe), reading your texts! What a great feeling for me! Thanks a lot!!!!

articles about oneslf

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

well, I have to admit that I can understand the wiki rules very well. I would not like to be an administrator if I had to check every article about every other person who thinks they are important. on the other hand the admins should try to put some research into people who are "allowed" on other wikis, like jpm. I followed the discussion on the french wiki and in the end the admins there were convinced of his "notability". why don't you just check there? you will find that he is not just notable, but indeed a more important person than many of those who have their articles here. (jkd - teacher inspired by jpm)

Whow!!! That's a great compliment! As you know, my target is not to be famous through Wikipedia but to build a hubb. If somebody is looking for informations about "learning by teaching" and finds my name, he can be connected to other activities and so build a network inside the WP in order tu construct knowledge together. My opinion regarding the Wikipediaadmins is, that they are good people, but a little bit conservative. They want to set up an encypclopädia like the 19.century ones. The Wikipedia Technologie is far more performative! Anyway: thank your very much, Kathrin!--Jeanpol 08:03, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Cool guy: are you vanished? ;-))

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

Please tell us which decision you made...--Jeanpol 08:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Well I'm not in a good position to say if the page is encyclopedic or not. I don't know enough, but I have looked at your user contributions, and you have contributed to nothing but your own encyclopedia page. That is not the spirit of Wikipedia, but you seem to be a smart guy and I know you will have a lot to contribute to its knowledge base. CoolGuy 02:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

At the moment a didn't contribute to an other article because I'm doing a lot of preparations in order to write very good articles. The next article will be about "French as foreign language in Germany" and it takes time till it's finished. In addition, I'm recruting students woho help me writing good articles. Thank you to finding that I'm smart. If you are able to recognise that I'm smart, you are smart too! ;-))--Jeanpol 05:56, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

@Cool guy: by the way: you are blending two things which are not linked: the discussion about the article about me and my contributions to WP-articles. The article about me is justified, because I'm "notable"!;-))) Not because I'm working on WP-articles! ;-)) Sigmund Freud has got an article, but he don't works on any article at all, because he is died! ;-))--Jeanpol 05:29, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

@cool guy: jeanpol has contributed to articles that are not directly related to his own method on German wikipedia. Besides, there are ways to contribute to Wikipedia other than writing articles. (Contributions to discussions are also valuable, and some people never write much but only go troll and vandal-hunting.) As you say, I am sure Jeanpol has a lot to contribute.--Fenice 10:02, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Fenice: Thank your for helping me. I think, cool guy is now convinced. But it's interessant to read, that one can contribute to WP just by discussing with others. I agree of course!;-))--Jeanpol 10:21, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Notability

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

Not that I want to give a formal acceptance of the presence of this article, I must say that LdL is known to many teachers and already has its own article. The person that developed the idea is notable (just check Google), and the fact that he has helped write it is not against the rules. Yes, it's a little frowned upon, but he is certainly the expert on the topic and there are plenty of us to check for bias. I'll add it to my watchlist so that I can monitor it too.

I'm going to remove the questioned notability tag – if anyone disagrees then I suggest that they go through the standard VFD process. violet/riga (t) 11:15, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Regarding "there are plenty of us to check for bias": I don't won't to modify the article at all. I just think that it's a big help for WP-Users if they are looking for my name in connection with "Learning by teaching" and they find it. Anyway: thanks for removing the tag and improving the article!--Jeanpol 17:16, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Coolguy: I'm a little surprised

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

Hallo coolguy, I'm a little surprised (it's not important, I just want to understand the WP-rules better! ;-)): you delited following text by me: ":Regarding "there are plenty of us to check for bias": I don't won't to modify the article at all. I just think that it's a big help for WP-Users if they are looking for my name in connection with "Learning by teaching" and they find it. Anyway: thanks for removing the tag and improving the article!--Jeanpol 17:16, 5 August 2005 (UTC)"
I thought, it's not usual to delite text from other users, isn't it?--Jeanpol 06:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Request for comment

I am sorely troubled by the articles Jean-Pol Martin and Learning by teaching. These articles (and others) have been placed in WP by Dr. Martin himself, under the name User:Jeanpol, thus violating some basic precepts of WP. These articles seem to be linked to each other in the "See also" section. There has already been some comment about these articles, but it seems to have lapsed, and meanwhile they continue to exist. Could you kindly take a look and suggest a course of action? Sincerely,GeorgeLouis (talk) 18:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm willing to help, but it's difficult to understand which request has to be deal with. If you are troubled, you just have to read the contributions on the top of this page. As you will see, your problem was deeply discussed in the past and was resolved by highly competent users.--Jeanpol (talk) 08:37, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Google Scholar

This page at Google Scholar may be helpful. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 02:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Eastmain Thank you! Jeanpol (talk) 14:27, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Secondary sources

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

1. 1984: Bayerisches Fernsehen: Aus Forschung und Lehre

2. 1992: Bayerisches Fernsehen: Aus Forschung und Lehre

3. 2002: DER SPIEGEL: Guten morgen liebe Zahlen

4. 2004: Reinhard Kahl: Treibhäuser der Zukunft. Wie in Deutschland Schulen gelingen., 3-DVD-Set mit Booklet, ISBN 3-407-85830-2.

5. 2008: ZEIT-online: Schüler als Lehrer

6. 2009: GEO WISSEN: Nr. 44 - 11/09 - Die ideale Schule Jeanpol (talk) 12:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

7. 2018: Olaf-Axel Burow & Stefan Bornemann. Das große Handbuch Unterricht & Erziehung in der Schule. Carl Link 2018.Jeanpol (talk) 06:01, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Rank

Am unclear what rank or role Martin had at Eichstaett. A search of their website does not find him. Jytdog (talk) 01:46, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

I was "ausserplanmäßiger Professor", something like "supernumerary Professor", or perhaps "associate Professor". My job was on the university and I teached in a class at grammar school in order to keep in contact with the practice and in order to test and develop my method not just thinking and theorysind, but doing (empirical, action research)! Jeanpol (talk) 04:07, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, is there a source for that? If not, that is something you can add to your about me page, and we can cite that. We are generally cautious with using this kind of self-published source but for simple facts like this it is fine, and I trust you. But it has to be some place "out there" where it can be cited. Thanks.Jytdog (talk) 05:36, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I have to search in the archivs of the university. It may take some time, but it will work.Jeanpol (talk) 05:48, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

A collaborator from my university send me a scan from the program-page from my faculty (the program of 2007 is not online). If you go to about me you can scroll to the bottom and find "Meine Position an der Uni-PdF". There you can download the scan from the page as PdF. You will see my Titel (Prof.Dr.Jean-Pol Martin) and my scope of work (Didaktik des Französischen) so the list of my collaborators. My official Titel was Professor for die Didaktik des Französischen. Jeanpol (talk) 11:27, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks but that is not really what we need here. What would be really helpful is if you had a CV online, like this one. You know, the boring, standard CV where the titles of the positions were listed with dates. For that person

2017- present Co-Chairman, Department of Molecular Medicine, The Scripps Research Institute

2008-2017 Chairman, Molecular and Experimental Medicine, The Scripps Research Institute

2000-2008 Dean of Graduate and Postgraduate Studies, Scripps Graduate Program, The Scripps Research Institute

2000-2006 Vice President, Academic Affairs, The Scripps Research Institute

1997-1997 Professor of Chemistry, Texas A&M University

1996-1996 Visiting Investigator, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Institute

1995-1997 Associate Professor of Chemistry, Texas A&M University

1989-1995 Assistant Professor of Chemistry, Texas A&M University

1986-1989 NIH Postdoctoral Fellow with Dr. E. Thomas Kaiser, The Rockefeller University

like that. Do you? Jytdog (talk) 21:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I retired 2008. At that time nobody had a curriculum online. Everything (for instance the program-book from the university) were print and not online. As I applicated, I allways send printed curriculum vitae. The only proof I can send you, is the official document from the university about my retirement, with Titel (Professor Doktor) and the date of retirement (2008). I don't exactly know why you need such documents or CV. Just in order to write "Professor" instaede "instructor"? I defenitly was not "instructor", but Professor for Frenchdidatics, with an collaborator-team and funds for my researches. Perhaps you can send your email-adress to me (jpm@ldl.de) and y send you the retiring-document. But if not, it doesn't matter. People who know me in Germany know, that I'm professor. And for our purpose ("Learning by teaching") it's not important to know whitch position I had in Eichstätt.--Jeanpol (talk) 03:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

In addition: my CV was very clear: I was from 1980 to 2000 "Akademischer Rat" for Frenchdidactics and from 2000 on "Professor for Frenchdidactics" on the Eichstätt-University. I spend all my energy on my researches and my lectures for students.Jeanpol (talk) 03:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

People get very fussy over exact titles. We have Academic ranks in Germany btw so the exact title is fine. I think at one point you said "außerplanmäßiger Professor"? And we need an actual source to cite which is why I pointed you to this one Some clear statement of the rank and time, that we can cite, would be great. Thanks so much. Jytdog (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I can send you (per mail) the photo of the document of my official nomination to "außerplanmäßiger Professor" (18.july 2.000).Jeanpol (talk) 03:48, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

It needs to be public so we can cite it! That is fundamental WP. It would be wonderful to have your CV on your blog. We could cite that. I realize this seems probably seems silly and bureaucratic to you but we really need a source to cite. yes even your blog would be fine. ack. Jytdog (talk) 04:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Done (see bottom: "CV for Admins Englisch-Wikipedia")https://jeanpol.wordpress.com/about-me/ Jeanpol (talk) 05:07, 5 June 2018 (UTC).

That is exactly what was needed! Will implement this week. Thank you. Jytdog (talk) 05:10, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Fine! This seems not silly to me. Its exactly what I need: the pages "Learning by teaching" and "Jean-Pol Martin" are now very acurate. If you read my article "Conceptualization as a source of happiness" you will see that my principle is "no risk, no fun" (see the Neuron-Rules). I think, I have a lot success with this motto, but acurateness needs an other strategy.Jeanpol (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

The only reason I'm so willing and so happy to have a very good page about "Learning by teaching" in the Englisch-WP is, that a lot of people worldwide are interested in this method. Did you see, that the English-WP-Page from "Learning by teaching" has 100 views in a day? So you contributed really to make the world a better place. Because "Learning by teaching" make students more competents and more happy! And you have hugh improved the page!Jeanpol (talk) 03:49, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

We did. :) Jytdog (talk) 04:39, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

• ok, i added that content in this diff series. Sorry for the delay. Please let me know if something could be translated differently or better. Jytdog (talk) 03:39, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it's good, I'm satisfied. Regarding the editing in this page I have an other question: every informations now are correct. So I don't want to change anything. But there are e few orthography-errors, like "Hanle" instead of "Hoenle" or "von Kahl" instead "Kahl". I would like to correct this errors without demanding the permission. Please "assume good faith". My interst is, that this article be correct and good.Jeanpol (talk) 04:12, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes please feel free to fix typos. And every person is free to remove outright vandalism too from their biographies. Jytdog (talk) 14:16, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Fine!Jeanpol (talk) 14:57, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Retired

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{{Connected contributor|User1=Jeanpol |I am Subject of the article}}

I retired 2008, not 2007.Jeanpol (talk) 07:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

So this is a thing, where people find WP frustrating. We edit based on what reliable sources say. The Goethe House piece, from November 2007, says "“Also against resistance, right up to today,” the educationalist, who is now retired, said. He has now given the scientific responsibility for LdL over to Adj. lecturer Joachim Grzega, who is continuing to spread and refine the method at the University of Eichstätt." ... So... Jytdog (talk) 14:56, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

I understand. But are you not enthousiastic about the outstanding article? This was a very succesfully collaboration. I don't see any reason to be frustrated!Jeanpol (talk) 15:05, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

i'm glad of that! Jytdog (talk) 21:57, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

My biography

talk I'm glad you discover my biography. As you see, I don't shelter anything. If you read my article "Learning by teaching: conceptualization as a a source of happiness", you will see, that I develop the Neuron-Behavior. So I'm behaving. Are you able to read my biography in German? Jeanpol (talk) 04:23, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I cheat and use google translate, and then go back and look at the German, to help me learn German better. My German is poor. Jytdog (talk) 14:17, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I think you have a lot to do in your job. So it will take a long time if you are willing to read my all biography. When you are at the end, say me please if you still find it "fascinating". Kind regards.--Jeanpol (talk) 15:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I would have so much more to say about it, but I don't talk about personal things in WP. I edit contentious subjects and there are icky people who go looking for clues and try to dox people like me, so they can do me harm.

Also, talk page like this are for discussing improvements to the associated article, and not for general discussion, so it wouldn't be appropriate here anyway :) Jytdog (talk) 16:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Okay! I understand.Jeanpol (talk) 17:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Why not here? Diskussionsseite--Jeanpol (talk) 06:03, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

And the deletion-proposal motivated me hugh to begin with this: Theory and aims.--Jeanpol (talk) 06:03, 11 June 2018 (UTC)