Talk:Jan Masaryk

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It is not 100% clear whether Jan Masaryk was murdured or not, althought the evidence seems to point towards murder. -- J.V.

Defenestration

This probably error to include his murder (or whatever it was) among Defenestrations of Prague, because the defenestration is usually understood to be public act of revolting public against the government (and it has beautiful advantage that all suspects are hidden in a crowd, so not one person is culpable of all crime). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.241.170.98 (talk • contribs) .

Jan Masaryk's death

The person conducting the post mortuum on Jan Masaryk was also an expert witness coopted by the Germans for the investigation into the Katyn Massacre.

This and other details of the injuries suffered by JM appeared in a book on Twentieth Century Mysteries —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jackiespeel (talk • contribs) .

If anyone can get hold of the details of the Post Mortem and related reports and post a summary of the injuries it might be able to argue the case (IIRC there were injuries to his heart and ribs (as well as other areas) could these be the effect of someone trying heart massage and getting it wrong - then trying to cover up?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.85.15.68 (talk • contribs) .

.......... Asn I recall from an article in Time Magazine from 1968, two pieces of evidence suggested that Mararyk had no intention of committing suicide. First, he had a full calendar for a considerable time after his death, which is inconsistent with suicide. People committing suicide ordinarirly wrap up the little loose ends of life before they kill themselves.

Second, the phone lines to Masaryk's office were cut. Why would Masaryk do that himself? If he were going to kill himself, then why would he concern himself with telephone calls afterwards?

Masaryk might not have been able to thwart the communist seizure of power had he lived, and ironically, the Czechoslovak communists installed a moderate as a foreign minister.

If he had a heart attack and fell, then remember that numerous poisons can cause heart attacks, and the Soviet secret police, already present in Czechoslovakia, could have administered the poison quite secretively.

--66.231.38.97 00:32, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Jan Masaryk's murder

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/domaci.asp?r=domaci&c=A050309_214822_domaci_miz

I do not know if everbody can read this, but this is the official information needed to evidence that Masaryk was killed.--Ekkenekepen 09:14, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is far from "official" information. It is opinion of a media savvy psychiatrist who plans political career. Getting full page about an emotional topic in newspaper is always handy. Until an order to murder Masaryk or direct wittness will be found everything is just a speculation.

The article is also missing information that Jan Masaryk was rather mentally unstable, was in psychiatric care when living in the US before WWI and suffered from "complex of children of famous people". The February 1948 communist takeover was the end of everything his father and he worked for so suicide is not /that/ unthinkable. Pavel Vozenilek 10:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

MF DNES article presenting latest findings in the Masaryk Case

In this section you will find first the complete Czech news-article, the user above refers to with the following link: http://zpravy.idnes.cz/domaci.asp?r=domaci&c=A050309_214822_domaci_miz.

Below the article you will find an ad-hoc translation into English by myself. I tried to stick to the original paragraphs as created by the author, also I have decided to stick as close to the Czech sentences as possible. Only where Czech constructions were impossible to translate without screwing the meaning I chose to translate more freely to catch the true sense. This will hopefully allow you to judge whether these findings are really a progress in solving the masaryk case or not.

Personally I think they are not. If you asked me why, I would reply: Read Claire STERLING's "The Masaryk-Case". Since it is not my intention to influence neither hobby-investigators nor those of you who might be scientifically interested in younger Czech history, I would like you to make up your own mind concerning the reliability of the author and the "docu-novel" on the "Masaryk-case". You will find STERLING's vita and comments on her novel "The Masaryk Case" in the internet. I have found all of it just by googling around.

Enjoy!

(newspaper extract taken from the webpages of MF DNES)

Výpověď znalce: Masaryka zavraždili

10. března 2005 1:00

Jan Masaryk byl zavražděn. S novým důkazem o záhadné smrti ministra, jehož tělo bylo nalezeno na nádvoří pražského Černínského paláce 10. března 1948, přišel pražský psychiatr Cyril Höschl. Vypovídal pro Úřad dokumentace a vyšetřování zločinů komunismu (ÚDV)

"Mechanismem projekce (vcítění se do situace sebevraha) si lze jen těžko představit, že by v případě plánované sebevraždy postupoval tak, jak je známo," uvedl Höschl. Případ byl již před jeho výpovědí uzavřen: šlo o vraždu, pachatel neznámý. Höschl závěr podpořil: "Nejde si představit, že po ukončení pracovního dne by se Masaryk z civilního oděvu převlékl do pyžama při vědomí, že bude po skoku nalezen a že tento obraz vejde ve všeobecnou známost." Agentka: Vrazi byli z NKVD Přestože i dnes mnozí podporují verzi sebevraždy, pro vraždu svědčí stále více stop. Pravda může být ukryta v moskevských archivech. Bývalá agentka sovětské tajné služby NKVD Jelizaveta Paršinová již dříve řekla, že Masaryka zabili její kolegové. Uvedl to i její syn pro Svobodnou Evropu. "Požádali jsme Rusko o právní pomoc. Reakcí však bylo sdělení, že paní Paršinová zemřela a listinné materiály k případu Masaryk podléhají stále režimu utajení," řekl náměstek ředitele ÚDV Pavel Bret. Verze, podle níž Masaryka zavraždila sovětská tajná služba, se objevila poprvé v roce 1993. Tehdy se Rádiu Svobodná Evropa v Mnichově přihlásil muž, který tvrdil, že o vraždě Masaryka slyšel od své matky, Paršinové, žijící vMoskvě. "Poskytl rozhovor pro ruské vysílání Svobodné Evropy. Já jsem to slyšel a utíkal do studia českého vysílání, kde jsem tuto informaci zveřejnil," říká Jefim Fištejn, který v té době pracoval pro české vysílání jako komentátor. Podle Fištejna se však muž poté z Německa ztratil, pravděpodobně se vrátil do Ruska. Snažil se prý utéct po římse "Vyprávěl, že slyšel, o čem se bavila jeho matka s dalšími bývalými příslušníky tajné služby, když se napili. Masaryka prý vyhodili z okna její kolegové. Snažil se jim prý utéct po římse," říká Fištejn. Jeho výpověď potvrdila sama Paršinová, když s ní Česká televize v Rusku natáčela dokument Československo ve zvláštních službách. Jenže žádost o právní pomoc, kterou poté podala česká policie, ruské orgány odmítly. Paršinová je prý po smrti a dokumenty, které se týkají Masaryka, jsou tajné. "Po půl roce nám poslali její úmrtní list," řekl vyšetřovatel Ilja Pravda, který měl případ Masaryk na starosti v Úřadu pro dokumentaci a vyšetřování zločinů komunismu (ÚDV). Verzi o vraždě, kterou však nemusela mít na svědomí jen sovětská tajná služba (podezřelých bylo totiž víc) naposledy podpořil psychiatr Höschl. Byl zřejmě ke skoku donucen, říká Höschl Podle něj byl Masaryk ke skoku z okna někýmdonucen, popřípadě vyskočil ve strachu a pod tlakem situace. Höschl uvedl: "Je nepravděpodobné, že by se po rozhodnutí skočit z okna snažil realizaci ještě dále zkomplikovat přemístěním se dál od okna. Argument, že skok provedl čelem ke zdi, je v mých očích spíše argumentem pro to, že skok nebyl z vlastního rozhodnutí. Navíc je velmi nepravděpodobné, že by rozhodnutí k sebevraždě bylo slučitelné s pokračováním v běžných povinnostech – personálu přislíbil setkání na druhý den a připravoval si projev." Přestože pro verzi vraždy svědčí stále více a více stop, řada znalců i pamětníků je přesvědčena o jeho dobrovolném odchodu ze života. O tom, že se sebeobětoval v době krize po převzetí moci komunisty, je například přesvědčen jeho někdejší tajemník Antonín Sum. ÚDV proto připravuje právě v těchto dnech odbornou publikaci, která nabídne pohled na "případ Masaryk" ze všech hledisek a nebude se držet jediné verze jeho konce. "Publikace se netýká jen jeho smrti, ale i období, které předcházelo. Aby si lidé uvědomili jeho roli a neomezovali se jen na ten tragický okamžik," říká náměstek ředitele ÚDV Pavel Bret. Publikaci dostanou přednostně školy. Muž jeho formátu by se nepřevlékl do pyžama, říká psychiatr Psychiatr Cyril Höschl nabízí svůj pohled na smrt Jana Masaryka. Nevěří, že by se člověk jako on převlékl před sebevraždou do pyžama. Höschl se vyjádřil jako odborník, který má zkušenosti s depresivními pacienty včetně těch, kteří skončili život sebevraždou. Co považujete za nejvýznamnější argument proti sebevraždě? To, že by se Masaryk, celým národem milován a uctíván, s vědomím, že bude po pádu nalezen, převlékl před sebevraždou do pyžama, že by pro skok volil komplikovanější cestu a že by se před pádem přesouval po římse na méně příhodné místo. Jsou i argumenty opačné? Ano, údajný výskyt deprese (melancholie) v rodině, u matky Charlotty Masarykové. Jak člověk jeho typu jedná, když se rozhodne pro sebevraždu? To je dnes velmi obtížné posoudit. Jistě méně okázalé, do značné míry snazší a pohodlnější by bylo spolykání prášků, pomineme-li možnost se zastřelit. Kdyby se rozhodl pro skok z okna, asi by si ho nekomplikoval cestou přes koupelnu a po římse. Pravděpodobně by také nechal vysvětlující dopis, ať již na místě nebo u někoho z přátel. Také by se asi na skok neoblékl do pyžama, pokud by nebyl pod vlivem alkoholu, což nebyl. Jaký je váš výsledný názor? Podle mého soudu byl Masaryk ke skoku z okna někým donucen, popřípadě vyskočil ve strachu a pod tlakem situace vyvolané jinými osobami. Tato verze zahrnuje i možnost, že se zoufale pokusil oknem uprchnout a po římse, z níž nakonec spadl, se někam dostat. Luděk Navara, MF DNES

Translation of the above news-article

An Expert’s Testimonial: They killed Masaryk

March 10, 2005, 01:00

Jan Masaryk was assassinated. Such is the conclusion of Cyril Höschl, a psychiatrist from Prague(CZ), who lately testified in front of the UDV, which is the Communist Crimes Investigation Office. Höschl had re-analyzed the obscure death of the former Czechoslovak Foreign Minister, whose corpse was found in the courtyard of the Cerninsky Palace (Foreign Office) in the early morning hours on March 10, 1948.

“By the use of the method of projection (which is an emphatic approach to “feel into” a person just about to commit suicide), it is hard to imagine, why –if the suicide was planned- he (Masaryk, interpreter’s remark) proceeded the way which is commonly known,” stated Höschl.

The case was closed prior to Höschl’s testimony, already. Yet his resume only supports the official findings: “One cannot imagine that in a working day’s end Masaryk changes his suit for pyjamas, fully aware that after jumping out of the window he will be found dressed like this and leave this picture to become publicly known.”

A Female Agent: The murderers were sent by the NKVD

Despite even today many believe in a suicide, there is still more and more evidence for a murder. The truth may be hidden somewhere in Moscow’s archives. Former soviet NKVD agent Yeleezaveta Parasheenova had already stated in the past that actually here colleagues had killed Jan Masaryk. In an interview with Radio Free Europe her son stated just the same. “We have asked Russia for legal support in this issue, however, we were told, that information concerning the Masaryk-case still are confidential”, said Pavel Bret, deputy director of UDV.

The version according to which Masaryk was supposed to be killed by the soviet secret service, had emerged in 1993 for the first time. At that time a young Russian contacted Radio Free Europe in Munich, Germany, saying that his mother Parasinova (Parasheenova) now living in Russia had told him of Masaryk’s murder before. “He gave an interview for the Russian language broadcasting service. When I had heard what he was saying, I immediately ran off to the Czech broadcasting service to have this information released,” says Jefim Fistejn, that time being a commentator for Czech broadcasts. According to Fistejn, however, this young man disappeared from Germany, and probably returned to Russia.

Allegedly he tried to escape on the cornice

“He said that he remembered his mother talking to former secret service colleagues while getting drunk. Allegedly her colleagues had thrown Masaryk out of the window. He had tried to escape on the cornice” says Fistejn. His statements were later supported by Parasinova herself, when Czech Television produced a documentary in Russia on Czechoslovakia in Special Services. A hereupon launched request for legal support by Czech police authorities was however rejected by Russian authorities stating that Parasinova had died meanwhile and documentation on the Masaryk case was still confidential. “Half a year later they sent us her death certificate,” stated investigator Ilja Pravda, who was responsible for solving the Masaryk case on behalf of the UDV.

The murder-theory, for which not necessarily only soviet services might be held responsible for, (since there were more services suspected), is supported by Höschls findings at last:

Obviously he was forced to jump, says Höschl

In his opinion Masaryk had been forced to jump either by somebody or by his fear because of the situation he might have found himself in. Höschl argued: "It is unlikely that he would have complicated the realization of his suicide, after having decided to jump, by moving himself farther away from the window. The statement that Masaryk had fallen down facing the wall, only supports the version that he did not jump intentionally, in my eyes. Furthermore it is unlikely somebody prepares his suicide and makes daily-business arrangements for the following day – he had scheduled to meet his staff the next day and speeches prepared to hold on that occasion.”

Even though more and more evidence suggests an assassination rather than a suicide, there is a row of experts and contemporaries convinced of Masaryk having left this world voluntarily. So is Masaryk’s former secretary Antonín Sum, who believes Masaryk sacrificed himself shortly after the communists had come to power.

Therefore UDV currently prepares a professional publication, which is to highlight the “Masaryk case” from various angles, thus avoiding to stick only to one version and its end. “This publication does not focus exceptionally on Masaryk’s death, it also analyzes the preceded period, so that people are made aware of Masaryk’s role and not only of one tragic moment, “ says deputy director of the UDV, Pavel Bret. The publication will be distributed among schools primarily.

A Man Of His Format Would Never Have Dressed In Pyjamas, says the psychiatrist

Psychiatrist Cyril Höschl offers you his view of Jan Masaryk’s death. He does not believe a person like Masaryk would change into his pyjamas when committing suicide. Höschl testified as an expert with experience in treatment of depressed patients, also with those who ended up their lives themselves.

What do you think is the most important argument against suicide?

The one that Masaryk, a man beloved and honoured by a whole nation, knowing that he will be found later on, commits suicide in his pyjamas, and while doing so, does not jump out the window straight away but instead climbs a certain distance along the cornice just to find a less suitable place.

Are there any opposite arguments?

Yes there are, allegedly his mother Charlotte had suffered from depressions (melancholy).

How does a type like Masaryk act, if determined to commit suicide?

This question is hard to answer today. Certainly this person would do so less spectacularly; to certain extend it would be easier and more comfortably to swallow a pill if we neglect the possibility to shoot oneself. If he had intended to jump, he certainly would not have had complicated the execution of his plan by going first to his bathroom, then climb off the window and further along the cornice just to jump from there. Most likely he would have left a final explanatory letter, either in loco or with some friend. Also he would not have worn pyjamas when determined to kill himself, except he had been drunk, which he had not been.

What is your final conclusion then?

My judgment is that Masaryk was forced by somebody to jump, respectively circumstances of fear caused by somebody urged him to do so. This version also includes that he might have wanted to flee along the cronice.

Author of the original text in Czech: Luděk Navara, MF DNES

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.168.20.120 (talk • contribs) .

Good riddance?

In Hungary people make fun of Masaryk. His name means "to have a bowel movement today" when said phonetically in the hungarian language, which is the basis for several dirty jokes. This is because hungarians feel Masaryk had a lot to do with oppression against ethnic hungarians in the 1920's and 30's CzechSlovakia. The popularity of communist ideology grew in Hungary when the word spread that the czech workers' party killed him. In 1949 Hungary itself was taken over by communists. 195.70.48.242 09:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Anniversay of death

It being the 60th anniversary, it could have been on the main page list of dates today: does not even appear on the Czech and Slovak equivalents). Jackiespeel (talk) 16:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

NKVD? In 1948?

NKVD could not be made responsible for deaths in 1948, because that time no organization with such name existed. Inform better ! --93.104.102.25 (talk) 18:02, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I am a supposed decendant! HELP

My name is Jacqueline Faurie. daughter to Charmaine MASURIK. The reason im here is because my mother once mentioned to me JAN MASARYK. Years later im now doing my research and apparently there is a tie between MASURIK and MASARYK, but i keep hitting a block at jan masaryk. my grand fathers name is DAVID MARTIN MASURIK. Can anybody please help me figure out my family tree! it would be much appreciated. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by J.masurik (talk • contribs) 08:49, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Start class?

This is an interesting article, but it seems start class to me. It lacks valid references throughout. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, you're absolutely right. I have updated the classification accordingly. Cloudz679 16:34, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

.

Vladimir Petrov ( http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Vladimir_Mikhaylovich_Petrov_(diplomat) ) confided to a nurse in an australian hospital that he was one of the KGB men involved in throwing JM out of the window. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.151.17.240 (talk) 22:43, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

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