Talk:Jamie Kelso

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Mythical White Supremacism

There is no such thing as a White Supremacist. No organization that I know of wants to rule over other races. They merely want to be rid of them. This is libelous and untrue. The correct term is White Separatist.Trojancowboy (talk) 16:20, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reliable sources use the term. Hopefully you realise that we ignore our own opinions on such things as our article are based on what reliable sources say about a subject. You use the word libelous, so I will need your assurance that you do not intend legal action - see WP:NLT. Dougweller (talk) 17:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have no immediate plans for a lawsuit but there are plenty of people who might, including Jamie Kelso. This is an encyclopedia. Let's have a reliable source that there is such a thing as a White Supremacist organization. This is a simple matter to fix. Change "Supremacist" to "Separatist". Review the policies for biographies of living people.Trojancowboy (talk) 18:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"White Supremacist" is now cited to WP:RELIABLE sources in the article both for the organizations he belongs to and for himself. If you have reliable sources arguing he is not, please produce them. He iro 18:17, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I am asking that you say you have no plans for a lawsuit or to encourage others to sue. We have plenty of sources saying that various organisations are white supremacist. Dougweller (talk) 18:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I will notify Jamie Kelso by some means and you can discuss it with him. This is not my biography. I am trying to keep Wikipedia from getting sued. I recommend the restoral of the dubious tag. It is not to be frivolously removed over a serious matter like this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Trojancowboy (talk • contribs)

I'll take this to ANI then if you won't make it clear you don't intend to sue, especially as you say you are taking this to Kelso. We really don't care what Kelso says about his beliefs although we can perhaps use something he says in a reliable source. Dougweller (talk) 18:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have just proven your agenda:"We really don't care what Kelso says about his beliefs---". Silly you! This is an encyclopedia, not your personal blog. You should be blocked from editing for this remark.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Trojancowboy (talk • contribs)

I added that we can use what he says appropriately. By 'we don't care' (and I should have been more clear) I meant that whatever he says can't override what reliable sources say about him. We may be able to have both. Dougweller (talk) 19:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note that Trojancowboy has been blocked indefinitely (which means until he explicitly retracts his legal threat) after I took this to WP:ANI - not by me, of course. Dougweller (talk) 21:22, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This KKK site[1] makes it abundantly clear that there is such a thing as white supremacists. Trojan's basic premise is false. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:46, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

White supremacist

Is one source justification enough to have this right in the lede? Darkness Shines (talk) 15:27, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's senior moderator at Stormfront, unless you are contesting that Stormfront is not white supremacist, then I don't see any issue, and if you are, you need to do it there. Dougweller (talk) 16:15, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not contesting anything, I am asking if one source is enough to use the label White supremacist on a BLP. I have no doubt that he is, but better sourcing is needed than a single opinion from a journalist. And have you just asked me to post on that website? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:22, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I meant that as senior moderator of a white supremacist website and one who is known for encouraging well known white supremacists to post at the website, we don't need any more sources. But, if you thought, which I don't think you do, that Stormfront isn't white supremacist, you'd have to discuss it at that article, not their website! And we've sourced that he is senior moderator there and encouraged white supremacists to particpate, so we actually have several sources saying he's a white supremacist. Dougweller (talk) 16:28, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, we have one source saying that, I just went looking for more and found none on GBooks or GNews. The rest is WP:OR. Perhaps he is just a run of the mill bigoted asshole who is so insecure about himself he needs someone to look down on? TBH you could write he is a baby killing, kitten beating, bigoted son of a whore-monger and it would not bother me. I was just curios about the sourcing.

Darkness Shines (talk) 16:38, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't look carefully enough at one of the sources, Cyber racism: white supremacy online and the new attack on civil rights which says "The white men who have led the white supremacist movement into the digital era, such as Don Black, David Duke, and James Kelso, are not the elite..." We also have several sources saying he's big cheese at Stormfront. He's the director of a white supremacists party and runs their website. It isn't really OR to say he's a white supremacist, it's more 2 + 2 = 4. Dougweller (talk) 16:53, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

“Anonymous” Reveals Close Ties Between Ron Paul And Neo-Nazis "Jamie Kelso, a notorious white supremacist has bragged about being a Ron Paul organizer and has several pictures from Ron Paul events posted on his website “White News Now”".
Youth for Western Civilization "Jamie Kelso, a well-known white supremacist with ties to former Klan leader David Duke".
Ron Paul campaign denies white supremacist ties alleged by Anonymous "emails purportedly reveal close ties between Paul and members who are admitted white supremacists.

The alleged emails show that James Kelso, a former member of the John Birch Society, was just one of several members of the group that regularly met with Paul.".

A Neo-Nazi Field Trip to the Met : White supremacists from across the country gather in New Jersey and New York for barbecue and culture.
ronpaultoday.com Ron Paul campaign denies white supremacist ties alleged by Anonymous – Daily Caller "emails purportedly reveal close ties between Paul and members who are admitted white supremacists.

The alleged emails show that James Kelso, a former member of the John Birch Society, was just one of several members of the group that regularly met with Paul."

Ron Paul, the American Third Position Party and Stormfront "Kelso, a former Scientologist and account owner of other German Nazi forums, became an active supporter of Paul in 2007. He was reportedly attracted to Paul because he believed the Republican's followers would be receptive to his white supremacist views. He described Paul as "implicitly white" and started to actively organise Paul's events.".
I think the dubious tag should once again be removed. He iro 19:06, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And Darkness Shines has now removed it, thanks Darkness Shines. Dougweller (talk) 19:54, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC

BAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:49, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]