Talk:James Douglas (the Black)

Move

If there are no complaints, this article is being moved to Sir James Douglas. He was possibly the first and certainly the most famous to take this article name. Even tho' he was known as the Black Douglas to his enemies, it was only his great nephews that differentiated between Black and Red. Brendandh 02:51, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

There is an objection, namely WP naming conventions concerning honorifics in titles (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Other non-royal names). Unfortunately, I moved it to the wrong name - I wasn't aware it had a previous name, but was acting on the discussion in James Douglas (disambiguation). I have removed it to what apparently was its former title. fishy 21:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I find this move back rather annoying, Sir James Douglas was the first of his name on historic record, a great hero of the wars of Scottish Independence, and furthermore was known as Sir James within his lifetime and by contemporary chroniclers, a name also by which he is known today. The disambiguation problems by calling him the Black Douglas arise because all Earls of Douglas and their close kindred from the 3rd Earl of Douglas to the ninth were known as Black Douglas. This to differentiate betrween them and the Red Douglas Earls of Angus. Sir James was feudal superior of the barony of Douglas, called commonly today a lairdship, but know then as the lordship of Douglas, this was not a title in peerage, as this had not been formally rationalised at this date. The name James which has been used as a common name throughout the history of the House of Douglas is in regard of this early warrior. The governor of British Columbia, although I am not sure of it exactly, was (great?) grandson of Dunbar Douglas, 4th Earl of Selkirk, therefore a direct male descendant of Sir William the Hardy, Sir James Douglas father. regards. Brendandh 13:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Response at User Talk:Brendandh (responding to crosspost on my talk page). fishhead64 18:57, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Still not happy with this page title, I'm moving it to James Douglas, Lord of Douglas. Brendandh 23:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I suggest waiting for a consensus before doing any such. PatGallacher 23:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)