Talk:James A. Garfield Memorial

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Cleveland Stub‑class Mid‑importance

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Visual arts: Public art

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Horatio Lonsdale

In Jan. 2022, an ip inserted the line, "Lonsdale also drew the cartoons for the frieze, dome and windows of the James A. Garfield Memorial in Cleveland, Ohio", into the article on Horatio Walter Lonsdale. It's not supported by the cite but may well be true. Do any editors with knowledge of the Memorial have an RS that confirms Lonsdale's involvement? KJP1 (talk) 08:56, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ohhh . this is a tough one. I am not sure if the "frieze" in question is the external one sculpted by Caspar Buberl or some bit of decoration on the interior. As fate would have it I happen to have Cleveland Cemeteries: Stones Symbols & Stories right at hand . . . and it does not help. Lonsdale being a Brit puts him somewhat out of my reach but I will look in a few other places. Otherwise I'd say a claim such as that needs a reference. Someone got it from somewhere. Carptrash (talk) 17:41, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a mention of Lonsdale here (https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/400) in an article that has Buberl doing an interior frieze, I think that claim is actually a typo, "interior" for "exterior." Anyway that Lonsdale in mentioned here leads me to believe that the claim is true. That is, he did the cartooons for the interior mosaic work. Carptrash (talk) 17:53, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Carptrash - Many thanks indeed for having a look. I agree a source is required, and that article certainly goes a long way. Looking at images like the one I've added above, I have to say they look like Lonsdale's work, and I think that's what the Artnet image is showing. But I'm puzzled as to how Lonsdale ended up with the commission. To the best of my knowledge, he never visited the US, although he was born in Mexico. But then neither did his boss, and he built this! Thanks again, and I'll keep looking myself. KJP1 (talk) 18:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

p.s. Actually, your article provides a rather fascinating clue; "George Keller of Hartford, Connecticut". That very likely accounts for Lonsdale's involvement, given that he undertook drawings for Burges' design for Trinity, which Keller would certainly have known. All OR, of course, but a very definite line of enquiry. KJP1 (talk) 18:48, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] KJP1 (talk) 05:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Two pages in Horatio Walter Lonsdale, 1844-1919: Architectural Artist: An Exhibition of His Drawings and Watercolours for Stained Glass and Other Interior Details published by Gallery Lingard in 1984 (oclc 16786960) note: "He is, however, known to have worked for a variety of clients and architects as an architectural artist. ... and between 1885-1886 he was involved in the design for the Garfield National Memorial" and, later, "George Keller, a friend of Lonsdale from his involvement with the designs for the Garfield Memorial..." The Lingard book also says Lonsdale's later work is notoriously under-researched. Stair Galleries, a fine art auctioneer, sold a set of watercolors in 2018 that included cartoons for the mosaics. Stair's images show the cartoons were signed "H. Lonsdale" and dated 1887, and claimed no verification of provenance. - Tim1965 (talk) 17:08, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tim1965 - Thanks, that is really helpful. So, I think we have some solid referencing for Lonsdale’s involvement. I’ll put something in the Lonsdale article, and here. Re. the lack of research, I think all of Burges’ team, and there were some very good ones, rather fell under the shadow of their master. At least Lonsdale didn’t follow William Frame, who became an alcoholic and was eventually fired by Lord Bute. Thanks again both for your help. KJP1 (talk) 18:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]