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Talk:JK Brackens GAA Club

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Untitled

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This is a currently existing gaa club it is similar in style is respect of information as many other similar articles about GAA clubs in ireland. Is it not in any event worthy of an encyelopedia to have articles on allegedly minor issues. Also the club is named after one of the founders of the GAA who was from the town, Templemore, which is part of the catchment area of the club. JK Bracken is noteworthy also for being the father of Brendan Bracken. For these reasons the article should be retained. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.100.98.158 (talk • contribs) 21:02, February 18, 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a reference to a newspaper article about the club, or similar might be useful for asserting the notability of the club. ConDemTalk 21:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"North Tipperary"

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The article correctly locates the club and parish in County Tipperary, a county that remains in existence for all purposes except local government administration following the 2001 reforms of local government in the Republic. User:Laurel Lodged is repeating edits to introduce references to the local government district of North Tipperary, which can only be confusing in GAA contexts since the GAA in Tipperary has three sub-divisions, including "North Tipperary" which excludes some clubs located within the local government boundaries and includes some outside the local government boundaries. This looks very much like an attempt to override the consensus reached at recent discussions in WT:GAA and elsewhere, to the effect that in GAA contexts references should be to the traditional 32 counties that the GAA structures match, rather than to the modern administrative counties. Brocach (talk) 22:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The WT:GAA decisions have no bearing here. The info boxes and articles may refer to Tipperary GAA. The lead says where it is from, geographically speaking. The convention is town/county/country. NT is the county. The parish article locates itself in NT and in the Archdiocese. Templemore locates itself in NT. Laurel Lodged (talk) 23:17, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of the parish of Templemore, Clonmore and Killea, the article states "North Tipperary" because you personally changed it from County Tipperary, which was accurate, to "North Tipperary". In the case of the article on Templemore, the article states "North Tipperary" because you personally changed it from County Tipperary, which was accurate, to "North Tipperary". County Tipperary remains a county for all purposes other than local government administration: s.69(2)(a) of the 1898 Act. The parish, the town, and J.K. Bracken's GAC have always been and are still all in County Tipperary for all purposes except those relating to the administrative functions of local councils. Brocach (talk) 23:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"for all purposes other than local government administration" - what exactly does this encompass? What function does a county serve other than that of the demarcation of areas of local government? None as far as I know. By the way, what is the point in not making edits to this page if you're going to make edits to all the other pages mentioned to conform to your worldview. That's just edit-warring by proxy. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:08, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you have an issue with the statutory exception for all purposes other than administration, take it up with the people who passed the 1898 Act. The point is that County Tipperary was not abolished by that Act and has remained in continuous existence. But since you ask, one of the non-governmental functions that Tipperary retained after the 1898 reform was as the area within which Tipperary GAA was organised. Brocach (talk) 20:21, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have no issue with the governing legislation. Nor do I dispute that County Tipperary has a continuing twilight existence, in the popular mind. You cite Tipperary GAA in response to my question. The citation is flawed for two reasons: firstly it assumes that Tipperary GAA had a function in County Tipperary prior to the 1898 legislation; secondly it assumes that it had a county function after the passage of that legislation. Both assumptions are false. The GAA is powerful but it cannot make or unmake counties. I see now that the flaw in your reasoning stems from a confusion of "makes use of" and "is a function of". Many organisations make use of the area demarcated by a county: map makers, holders of title deeds, licencing laws for publicans, genealogists, poor law unions, post offices, licence plate issuers etc. For none of these organisations does the function of a county exist. A county has only ever served one function: to demarcate areas of local government by the Crown (and more latterly by the state). In Norman times, this included the circuits of itinerant judges. Later it demarcated the area of operation of the Grand Jury. Still later, it demarcated areas of local government by entities known as county councils. In all 3 cases, it was about exercising devolved royal (or state) power by person(s) designated by the Crown (or state). Nothing else. The GAA was a user of a pre-defined geographical area; it had no function in that area. If it were otherwise, then the county could have had no existence prior to the creation of the GAA. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:32, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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