Talk:Jüri Vips

WP:NOTCENSORED

Kronix1986 Can you please explain why you (and a couple of others) keep changing the actual word used to the vague "racial slur" wording? Wikipedia is not censored; and the full word used gives complete context to the user instead of a vague buzzword that then requires additional searching to find out. This is how it was done with Kyle Larson's article. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 13:55, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Pelmeen10 Your opinion on this would also be valued. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 15:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

IMHO it does not really matter. But please discuss this without edit-warring. Pelmeen10 (talk) 15:08, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

It's simple: it's not clear where he says "nigga" or "nigger". That will be determined by the investigation. Anybody claiming he said one or the other is inserting their opinion into what is more appropriately termed a "racial slur".

Kronix1986 (talk) 16:45, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

What's not in doubt, as said in multiple sources, is that he said "the n-word". The vague "racial slur" wording is therefore even more inappropriate since it does not give the full context. If we want, we can clarify in the article that it's unclear whether he said "a" or "er". -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 17:26, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I do agree with Dan's ghost here. However, I'm not sure why there's a debate around whether he said "nigga" or "nigger". Verbally there's no difference, and "nigga" appears to be white washing it somewhat. I also think the distinction is irrelevant - when people hear "the n-word" they think of the word ending in "er". I'd urge us to be explicit in using the word he used. — Czello 18:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Me neither, to be honest. I originally put in "er" but was quickly changed by another user to "a". -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 18:13, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

If "nigga" is what he said then it's not whitewashing, what matters is what the reliable sources say though. At the moment the existing source says racial slur or "n-word". This is a WP:BLP so care should be taken with what is written, let's not automatically assume he used the "hard R" which is unquestionably worse than the already incredibly poor taste "nigga". For now unless other sources can be found that clearly states what variation of the word he used, it should simply state "n-word" or "racial slur." The former is better in my opinion as it is less vague. TylerBurden (talk) 18:22, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I've just added another source which explicitly uses the hard R. — Czello 18:25, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Sources differ but most of the reliable ones state he said the one ending in "a", as an advanced Google search corroborates. That's also what it sounds like (to me at least) on the clip. If there's no consensus I'd ultimately suggest reverting it back to "using a racial slur". MSport1005 (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

But that does not address the concerns of vagueness that editors have brought up with using this wording. If it's clear that he at least said "the n-word", then the wording in the article needs to be more specific than just "a racial slur". -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 20:12, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

As long as we're including the word, I think that's what matters rather than being vague. I'm still unsure why there's such a focus on using "nigga" rather than "nigger", but if there are more sources that indicate this I think it's reasonable to include. — Czello 21:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Grunty89, can you please participate in the discussion? Multiple editors disagree with your edit and the discussion has not resolved. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 04:18, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

From my stance, simply using just the "a racial slur" term is simply to make it sound more "neutral" for lack of a better term from my standpoint. Same with Kyle Larson's article. I have not edited the article since then for fear of this happening. Replies will be a bit delayed since I am at work right now but just offering my two cents.{{SUBST:Grunty89/sig}} 04:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

How do you figure this is more neutral wording? — Czello 06:50, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

RxxingAddict I invite you to the discussion as well. May you please elaborate on your edit and why we shouldn't use the full word in light of WP:NOTCENSORED. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 12:33, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2022

Juri Vips' contract as test amd reserve driver for RBR and AT was terminated in June 29th over racist remarks he made online on a stream. 103.119.66.66 (talk) 17:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 Already done This is already in the article at the bottom of the Formula One section. Terasail^[✉️] 17:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2022

Remove link to "Estonian" in lead per WP:OVERLINK. 62.165.213.253 (talk) 07:19, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done Of the universe (talk) 07:06, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 August 2022

Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED. Change "n-word" in the "Formula One" section to "nigga". 2A01:36D:1201:A00:21F4:B9D7:A389:D8A5 (talk) 13:45, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

 Already done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:10, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Red Bull junior programme

@Dmoroe6: On 19 July Helmut Marko told that Vips is not supported by Red Bull. https://www.planetf1.com/news/no-red-bull-support-juri-vips/ Pelmeen10 (talk) 20:15, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

@Pelmeen10 ok, I have corrected it I think Dmoroe6 (talk) 00:46, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@Dmoroe6: @Pelmeen10: Removed - PlanetF1 is not a WP:RELIABLE source. Feel free to re-add the sentence if you can find a better source for Marko's alleged statement. MSport1005 (talk) 21:04, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

@MSport1005: Planetf1 quoted the "sportsmole.co.uk" - what about its reliabilty? https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/red-bull/news/vips-not-receiving-any-support-marko_490432.html -Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Well... They seem quite amateur, website looks like it hasn't been updated since 1996 and it literally announces a random Fulham-Liverpool game at the top. They also very rarely talk about anything other than football gossip and rumours, they aren't known in the motorsport industry and have a very scarce following, with over 80% of their Twitter followers being bots. So yeah, I'd say they're worse than PlanetF1. Actually the fact that PlanetF1 trusts them proves they aren't reliable either. MSport1005 (talk) 21:30, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Did you also check the current sources used which you reverted to? 1) twitter 2) soymotor.com 3) PlanetF1 Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:12, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

I haven't touched the other sources. #46 to #51 are all reliable. MSport1005 (talk) 21:23, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

And what about these other two sources saying that Horner has finally backed down and that Vips is no longer part of the Red Bull Junior Programme? Are they reliable? https://www.is.fi/formula1/art-2000008955464.html

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1642933/Red-Bull-Juri-Vips-racial-slur-Christian-Horner-Helmut-Marko-F1-news Dmoroe6 (talk) 21:39, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

or well, I have found an article from soymotor.com and another from ERR news that talk about it and mention that the quote comes from an interview with ORF Tirol, but I am unable to find that interview (I don't speak German haha). Do these sources work?

https://soymotor.com/noticias/marko-las-palabras-de-vips-no-son-razon-para-destruir-su-trayectoria-998391

https://news.err.ee/1608662308/vips-no-longer-receiving-red-bull-support Dmoroe6 (talk) 22:06, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Those are good, thanks. I can see you've already added them. MSport1005 (talk) 14:39, 9 August 2022 (UTC)