Talk:Italian Empire

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On 18 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Italian colonial empire. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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Lead

The reduced lead does not seem like an improvement to me. The longer lead may have needed some tightening, but the current lead strikes me as less useful. Srnec (talk) 03:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Then expand back a little bit, concentrating on mostly what you consider missing.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Copyright problem removed

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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

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Requested move 18 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. All but one response rejected the addition of "colonial", one supported making "empire" lowercase. I could see a case for opening another discussion about the lowercase proposition, but it looks like "colonial" is out for now. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 02:54, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Italian Empire → Italian colonial empire – This is a fundamentally colonial topic, as the infobox and categories show. "Italian Empire" was never an officially used title, the "home country" was the Kingdom of Italy. The name "Italian Empire" capital E suggests a much larger formal state control over colonial possessions than was factually the case. I also see in English-language literature that "Italian empire" is often written with a lowercase e. It's worth emphasizing that a colonial empire represents a distinct category of empire, and for the sake of precision, the title should reflect that. While it's true that the Netherlands, Belgium, and Italy did not govern any empire apart from colonial empires, this should not preclude the inclusion of the term 'colonial' in the title. It is a fact that 'British Empire' is a well-established exception. Kpratter (talk) 11:52, 18 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Edward-Woodrow • talk 23:56, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Just because the e in "empire" is capitalized does not imply anything. As the nominator provided "British Empire" is a well-established example (exception or not), as are Spanish Empire and Portuguese Empire. Also, "Italian Empire" is far-more prevalent in scholar results than "Italian colonial empire". [1][2]--estar8806 (talk) ★ 20:21, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I requested the Portuguese Empire to be moved as well. The Spanish Empire is a bit more complex because it included not only overseas possessions but also other territories. Kpratter (talk) 09:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support or just lowercase empire – Since book stats show Empire capped only about half the time for this one, it clearly doesn't meet the condition articulated in MOS:CAPS. And yes, Portuguese empire has similar stats, so should also we lowercase. Spanish empire is somewhat more often capped, but I'd probably still default to lowercase there, too. By contrast, British Empire stats show over 90% capped. Dicklyon (talk) 20:22, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME based on the Google Ngrams. And "Empire" should remain capitalized. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:18, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose adding "colonial", per WP:COMMONNAME (see Rreagan's Ngrams link above). Neutral on lowercasing "Empire" – Ngrams suggest that the capitalized form is more common, but I can also see the merits of Dicklyon's argument. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:14, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per common name and creates a direct slippery slope which could reach the Roman Empire, and nobody wants that to fall. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:07, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.