Talk:Islam in Croatia

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Nice map, nice photo... but the article itself is not yet perfect. Some "facts" are fakes, for example the "Croatian" language in Istanbul. Of course, Croatians and Bosniaks speak the same language and write it in the same way today. But it does not mean that all Bosniaks are just Croatian Muslims, although Croatian nationalists like Pavelic said so. In Istanbul once "Bosniak" language instead of Croatian was popular because many Bosnians became Ottoman Grand Viziers. But of course Omar Pasha became a famous general...

And if we already look back in the history were are some territorial details? 1528 Slavonia was conquered by the Turkish, Dubrovnik subdued... 1592 Bihac (today Bosnia) and neighboured Croatian regions fall, 1606 and 1664 more territory became Turkish. Yes, Zagreb itself did never fall, but excepted Zagreb and Istria (once Venetian, not Croatian) almost 90% were occupied... no word about it?

And Croatians relations with the Bosniaks between World War II and Yugoslavia wars? Many things are still incomplete... even a correct chapter order is missing. --Roksanna 18:06, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lets keep in mind that true croatians reject Islam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.14.1.170 (talk) 19:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I heard a story about a family of Crypto-Moslems from around Zadar....I know it sounds incredible....but apparently....after the Ottomans left the area....most Moslems either fled....or reverted to Catholicism (and sometimes...even Orthodoxy...they HAD to be Christian) and apparently....there was testimony of a grand daughter of a woman who practiced Islam in secret....right into the 20th century...and they had done so for over 200 years....while pretending to be faithful Catholics. The grand daughter of the last Moslem in the family shared this story with a Moslem cleric in Croatia...about....how her children decided that they did not want to maintain this tradition of practicing another religion in secret...and having a secret identity!Gospe (talk) 06:11, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Islam is something that is not welcome in Croatia. We had wars with them for hunderds of years. All this plans for builiding mosques are just rumors. They are trying to make idiots out of us like they do in the rest of Europe, but they will fail! I don't know where did you get this rumor that mosques is being considerd in Karlovac??? That town is made for fighting Turks, and saved Europe from entering Muslims to Vienna. And this with Dubrovnik???? Croats will never want to see mosques on the hill of that ancient town!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.0.88.134 (talk) 20:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First of all about Roksannas edits. Croatian language was spoken in Istambul not Bosniak language (if it ever existed). An Italian traveler M.A. Pagafetta visited Istambul at the half of the XVI century, Pagafetta says that the people who ruled the Empire (politicians,soldiers...) were christian rebels who converted to Islam. He says that only the official statement are said by a translator in Turkish and all the unofficial talks are spoken without a translator in Croatian language, here is what he has written in Italian: ne 'i ragionamenti piu particolari et di meno importanza, over in qualche digressione, che allhora senza dragomani in crovata lingua parlavano, la quale e familiare a tutti quasi i Turchi et specialmente algi huamini di guerra. Do you see any word about Bosniak?? No. so this text and its fact are true.Crabath (talk) 14:41, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Istanbul once "Bosniak" language instead of Croatian was popular because many Bosnians became Ottoman Grand Viziers?

Here are 3 grand vezire´s from Bosnia who saw themselves as Croats e.g:

-Rüstem Pasha (Ottoman Turkish: رستم پاشا, Bosnian and Croatian: Rustem-paša Opuković) (ca. 1500 – 10 July 1561) was a Croatian from Bosnia who became an Ottoman general and statesman. He served as the Grand Vizier of Suleiman the Magnificent. Rüstem Pasha is also known as Damat Rüstem Pasha (Damat meaning Bridegroom to the Ottoman dynasty) and Hırvat Rüstem Paşa (Hırvat = Croat or Hrvat by Turkish historians).

-Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha or Hersekli Ahmed Paşa (Bosnian, Croatian: Stjepan Hercegović) was a Bosnian/Croatian Ottoman general and statesman from Hercegovina. Hersekli Ahmed Paşa is also known as Mahmut Paşa Hırvat (Hırvat = Croat) by modern Turkish historians.

-Mehmed-pasha Sokolovic (ca. 1510 – 79), born in eastern Bosnia near Visegrad, after having completed his higher education with outstanding honours, was asked by Suleiman II where he came from and he replied "from Croatia." (73) • "Suleiman the Magnificent - Sultan of the East" by Harold Lamb, it is clearly stated on pages 53, 117, 303, 311...that Sokollu Mehmet Paşa was Croat (ISBN=978-1-40677-271-5). Also in • "Lieber, Francis (1845). Encyclopædia Americana: A popular dictionary of arts, sciences,... Vol 13. Philadelphia: Columbia University Library." on page 345, Sokollu Mehmet Paşa is called renegade of Croatia.

The equivalence of the name of Bosniak and Croat in the early period of the Ottoman occupation of Bosnia is documented by the famous Turkish historian Aali (1542-1599) in his work Knhulahbar, also known as Tarihi Aali. He gave the following description of the properties of Croatian tribe (as he calls it) in Bosnia: As regards the tribe of the Croats, which is assigned to the river Bosna, their character is reflected in their cheerful mood; throughout Bosnia they are also known according to that river... [i.e. Croats = Bosniaks i.e. Bosnians]. Then follows an interesting passage describing virtues of the Croats in Bosnia. Let us cite it in Croatian, in Basagic's translation (the original text in the Arabic script and its translation can be seen in [Karihman], p. 78, with the Croatin translation being taken from Safvet-beg Basagic: Bosnjaci i Hercegovci u Islamskoj knjizzevnosti):

According the documents from the 15th and 16th centuries, Bosnian Muslims in central Bosnia and in Herzegovina called their language Croatian language and called themselves the Croats. Even today there are Bosnian Muslims with the second name Hrvat (= Croat). Probably the most interesting writings about the life in Ottoman Empire in the 16th century are numerous works published by Bartol Gyurgieuvits (1506-1566), who spent there 13 years as a slave.

The historical names of many officials in the Ottoman Empire reveal their origin (Hirwat = Hrvat or Horvat, which is a Croatian name for Croat):

Mahmut Pasha Hirwat (= Hrvat), Rustem Pasha Hrvat, Pijali Pasha Hrvat, Sijavus Pasha Hrvat, Memipaša Hrvat, Tahvilpaša Kulenović Hrvat, etc.

Many of the Muslim Slavs in Bosnia-Herzegovina had a strong awareness of their Croatian descent, and even called themselves Muslim Croats, to distinguish from the Catholic Croats. Some of the most outstanding Croatian writers and intellectuals of the Muslim faith in Bosnia and Herzegovina are: • Edhem Mulabdic (1862-1954), • Adenaga Mesic (1868-1945), • Ivan Aziz Milicevic (1868-1950), • Safvet-beg Basagic (1870-1934), • Osman Nuri Hadzic (1869-1937), • Hasan Fehim Nametak (1871-1953), • Fehim Spaho (1877-1942), • Musa Cazim Catic (1878-1915), • Dzafer-beg Kulenovic (1891-1956), • Ahmed Muradbegovic (1898-1972), • Hasan Kikic (1905-1942), • Hamdija Kresevljakovic (1898-1959) • Alija Nametak (1906-1987), • Nahir Kulenovic (1929-1963), • Enver Colakovic (1913-1976), • Mehmedalija Mak Dizdar (1917-1971) • Muhamed Hadzijahic (1918-1978) • Asaf Durakovic (1940) • Ekrem Spahic (1945) etc. Anybody wishing to study the history of Islamic culture in Bosnia-Herzegovina seriously should consult numerous works of Hamdija Kresevljakovic (1888-1959), an outstanding Muslim Croat, member of the Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts in Zagreb, author of an important monograph about history of Croatian literature in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Biographies of important Muslim Croats can be found in his ``Kratak pregled hrvatske knjige u Herceg - Bosni (A short survey of Croatian literature in Herzeg - Bosnia) printed in Sarajevo in 1912. For more information see [Karihman]. It should be noted that the literary and scientific activity of such intellectuals has been severely suppressed during the 70 years' Yugoslav period, resulting that today a very small percentage of the entire Muslim Slav population in BiH and Croatia has the awareness of its Croatian roots.--Zrin22 (talk) 17:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

???

Croatia's capital Zagreb has one of the biggest mosques in Europe, although during the Ottoman Empire it had none (Zagreb was never occupied by the Ottomans).

A fact is that Zagreb was never part of the Ottoman Empire and that it has one of the biggest mosques in Europe. But how can you say that it had none during the Ottoman Empire if Zagreb wasn't even occupied? In other parts of Croatia there certainly were (Ottoman)mosques. Or do they mean; during the time that the Ottoman Empire existed, Zagreb had none.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.250.43.46 (talk) 19:41, 27 September 2011 (UTC) ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:8BD6:9C50:D426:7F2F:7B15:C0C3 (talk) 14:09, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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