Talk:International Pentecostal Holiness Church

Government of the IPHC?

Does anyone out there know more about the government of the church? It seems hard to find an updated constitution.

Beliefs

Grow this section to move the article closer to "B" class. Also, citation for existing points would help. -- Secisek (talk) 18:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Reassessed

I've reviewed the assessment. Nice growth and improvement over the past few months. I'd like to see more content on the international growth of the church and the history subsequent to the 1920/1921 schism. I'd also like, as Secisek above commented, to see more on the beliefs, but it is now not so flagrant a hole as to hold the article back from B. Two sections remain unreferenced, namely "Schism" and "People". It would also be nice to see more use of independent sources. All in all, this is a B-class article with some holes remaining. GRBerry 14:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

GA Review #1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This review is transcluded from Talk:International Pentecostal Holiness Church/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hello, I will start the GA review within the next four days. Cheers, Majoreditor (talk) 03:39, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I am currently evaluating the article and will post results within the next 48 hours. Best wishes, Majoreditor (talk) 02:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

GA Review Criteria

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality: The prose is uneven. For example, see the last sentence in the lead: Traditionally centered in the Southeastern United States (the Carolinas and Georgia), the church today has an international presence which it has had to adjust to. The parenthetical statement is awkward, and the final clause, "which it has had to adjust to", isn't well crafted.

   B. MoS compliance: There are several MoS problems. Firstly, the lead is short and doesn't adequately encapsulate the article. Secondly, the body of the article contains several short, choppy sections. The "Schism" section consists of just three brief sentences, while the "People" section is a mere single sentence. Thirdly, the "Doctrine" section needs to be less of an embedded list and instead use prose to describe the denomination's beliefs. Finally, the article needs a good copy edit. I've corrected several minor punctuation issues but didn't manage to fix all of them.

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable? Unfortunately, the article suffers from a lack of independent reliable sources. The bulk of the article's references are self-published by the denomination. Certain assertions, such as the number of adherents, should source from reliable third-party sources.
3. Is it broad in its coverage? Pass.

   A. Major aspects: Pass.

   B. Focused: Pass.

4. Is it neutral? Pass.
5. Is it stable? Pass.
6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: Unfortunately, the logo image does not include copyright information and the non-free use rationale that it should.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: Pass.

Overall: While the article is admirable in many ways, it doesn't yet meet GA standards. There are several major issues which need addressing, such as the citations to reliable, independent sources and the image non-free use details. As a result, I cannot pass the article. Rather than placing the nomination on hold, it's best to give the article's editors the time they need to fix the issues raised in this evaluation. The article can then be re-nominated at GAN.

Don't be mad or discouraged. The article is off to a solid start; with some additional work this article will meet GA criteria. Best wishes, Majoreditor (talk) 04:06, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Sometime before the end of the year I'll make a run by the theology library and try to find some additional reference material for the article. Majoreditor (talk) 18:12, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I realize we need more sources other than the church's. Most of the information I gave came from the internet, but I'll try to search for more independent sources.Ltwin (talk) 18:44, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Some random thoughts on sources for the history section (general information on the development of the Holiness and Pentecostal movements):

C E Jones, A Guide to the Study of the Holiness Movement; D W Dayton, The American Holiness Movement: A Bibliographic Introduction; M E Dieter, The Holiness Revival of the Nineteenth Century; C E Jones, Perfectionist Persuasion: The Holiness Movement and American Methodism; J L Peters, Christian Perfection and American Methodism; T L Smith, Called Unto Holiness; P Scharpff, History of Evangelism; A Clarke, Commentary on the Holy Bible; H O Wiley, An Introduction to Christian Theology; R H Coats, H E R E , VI; D W Dayton, N I D C C ; V Synan, The Holiness Pentecostal Movement. Majoreditor (talk) 22:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I took a quick look at some reference sources and performed a quick search of an academic database of religious articles back in November. I found very little useful information. If time permits I'll look for other reference sources next time I'm at the library. Majoreditor (talk) 03:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Sections and list

I've combined the Mergers and schism section, but I really don't know how the People section can be incorporated into other sections so I've left it for now. I'll try to take the list in Doctrine section and convert it into prose when I have the time.Ltwin (talk) 21:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Doctrine

Ok I've gotten rid of the list, but I do not know if this is the best way to incoporate it into the paragraphs. Ltwin (talk) 00:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I'll help out with this and other items this weekend. Majoreditor (talk) 01:28, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I like the way you've handled the Doctrine section. I've made some other edits to the article this weekend. It's coming together quite nicely. Majoreditor (talk) 05:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Good progress!

I'm impressed to see how the article has progressed since I reviewed it. It is much better sourced than it used to be. You may want to consider re-nominating it at GAN. Majoreditor (talk) 02:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. Thanks for your help. Ltwin (talk) 02:49, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

One other note. I have added a Non-free use media rationale for the logo. Majoreditor (talk) 03:18, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review #2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This review is transcluded from Talk:International Pentecostal Holiness Church/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Initial Review

Looking good so far, a more detailed review to follow! FeydHuxtable (talk) 11:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Full Review

A quality entry that seems to meet all the Good Article requirments. I see MajorEditor who failed this at GA before has encouraged a re-nomination as the requested improvements have mostly been made. One minor point that wasnt addressed is that there is still no independent source for the membership figures - I changed the mention of membership in the lede to indicate the figures are self published. Other than that , just saw a couple of very minor improvements needed and I've already made the edits, therefore Im passing this article.

Here's just a few pointers in case anyones interested in expanding this to Featured Article status.

1) In the Origins section, a "Holiness" movement is mentioned - whats it all about and why did the Methodists reject it? The reference provided doesnt really answer these questions.

2) Whats a General Superintendent -is it an office similar to Arch Bishop , does it head the overall church?

3) History is well covered but it would be good to know more about the church as it is now. Is the PHC one of those churches where all almost the entire congregation receives the second baptism? What proportion speak in tongues? Other Christians are very interested in these things, in some major grouping like Catholics and Anglicans hardly anyone speaks in tongues, at least in the Western European and North American churches.

4) What other spiritual gifts are manifest?

5) Could the article talk a bit more about overseas ministries, maybe with a few specific examples.

6) A belief in a literal Heaven and Hell is mentioned, but how does the church stand on universal salvation, which has been described as the most important theological question of them all? In the Catholic , Eastern Orthodox and Anglican communions there are substantial bodies of opinion that while some may suffer in hell for a long time, even for ages, the Love of the triumphant Christ will ultimatly redeem all. Is this the case for HPC, one hears in some US churches everyone believes in eternal torment.

7) More pics please.

8) Any controversies and / or positive reception about the good work the church does? FeydHuxtable (talk) 13:52, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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