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GA Review

[edit]
Passed. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 22:53, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Llewee (talk · contribs) 16:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Rollinginhisgrave (talk · contribs) 07:24, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this on over the next few days. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:24, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

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I'll be adding comments as I go. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:50, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Started review, looking good, just some clarifications needed so far and some clarity in the lede on the subject. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:50, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave this for a bit so you can make some corrections, as some issues persist through the article and should be cleared up before I'm evaluating the material (attribution, glosses, clarity of paragraphs etc.) Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 10:01, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Rollinginhisgrave I hope the article is now in better state, I have tidied up the first two sections and made some additions.--Llewee (talk) 23:24, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou Llewee, I'll finish this review up in the next 24 hours, I like all the changes you've made. 18:40, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
Apologies for the delay, completing now. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:27, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Llewee. I'm leaving the review here, as I'm sure you can see why. I've been skirting over the prose, but after going more in depth sentences are either stumpy or overly long, and there are issues with redundancy. A lot of changes still need to be made, and I will need to do a second sweep of the entire article as I have been doing a cursory glance at prose (despite the length of the review so far). Can you do a thorough copyedit to make sure I can continue with the review, prioritising readability. Thankyou. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 04:26, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Rollinginhisgrave, I have responded to all your comments. I have tried to give the article a general tidy and improve the quality of prose.--Llewee (talk) 00:16, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I didn't realise some my answers hadn't saved, they are all done now.--Llewee (talk) 11:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Llewee, sorry this review has taken so long. I've finished up the review for the most part, a few things left. Looking good, hopefully you can get to these when you're available. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 16:11, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou, passing this now. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 22:52, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose and content

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The article needs some subheadings to prevent it just being blocks of text.

I have added some.--Llewee (talk) 00:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

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  • An infant school is a term which is used predominantly in England and Wales. It has been used since the 19th century to refer to schools or school departments that cater for children up to seven years old. → An infant school is a term used predominantly in England and Wales to refer to schools or school departments for children up to seven years old.
  • The lede shouldn't highlight that it's a term. It is notable that it is a distinct concept, rather than just a English and Welsh term for something that exists everywhere/elsewhere.
I think referring to WP:REFERS might help here. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 12:27, 9 August 2024 (UTC) Magenta clockclock[reply]
  • Why is Scotland mentioned for its historical use? It is discussed less than other historical examples.
  • They offered safety Clarify what safety means here.

Terminology

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  • In England, Reception is considered part of the Early Years Foundation Stage Make it clear that this is part of Infant School
  • junior primary schools What are these?
  • "first class" or even "second class" What are these?

Background

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  • Gloss: David Salmon and..., climbing boy
  • traditionally been seen as best that the fairly limited group of children who have tended to have access to schooling historically traditionally and historically duplicate each other.
  • Interest developed in expanded access to education date this / "at this time"
  • older than six or usually seven age six and up or seven and up?
  • Both age ranges were used. The source comments Whenever popular education was discussed in Parliament ‘school age’ was defined as six to twelve or seven to thirteen, usually the latter; and this was the age range for whom the voluntary societies aimed to provide schools.--Llewee (talk) 14:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early infant schools

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  • but it was introduced with the aim that it would not be the focus of instruction at this age I don't think this makes sense
  • It promoted the founding of new infant schools but had less success in training teachers. succeeded in promoting?
  • across England, the philosophy need conjunction, unsure which.
  • The years after 1811 saw a sharp is this during the push for infant schools or is what they were responding to?
  • I think coincided. The argument given by Roberts is that there were lots of small children causing a nuisance in Britain at the time which encouraged wealthy people to try and provide something for them to do.--Llewee (talk) 23:15, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • T.B Stephens is sceptical of it of the effectiveness of the movement?
  • Whitbread comments that teachers, who were largely untrained and under pressure from the lack of time children had to attend school, often focused on introducing children to discipline and formal instruction. Stuff like this doesn't need attribution.
  • increasingly established control over infant increasingly controlled?
  • shared this view of their function What view?
  • suggests What do you mean when you write suggests? Are they arguing it? Are they revealing it? Do you think it is controversial?
  • I have changed "suggests that the early infant schools offered" to "comments". The previous couple of sentences are contradictory arguments by two different authors so are introduced as "argues".--Llewee (talk) 22:52, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • regardless of their limitations What limitations are being referred to here?

Professionalisation and expansion

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  • Glosses: monitorial system
  • The 1845 Fletcher quote is redundant if you're going to sum it up in prose.
  • "Are the replies of the children made intelligently or mechanically or by rote ? Do they appear to have confidence in their master or mistress [teacher] and to regard them with affection?" is it Roberts saying this?
  • especially from those who wanted an early start to academic education I wouldn't summarise the following quote into this.
  • The Glasgow Herald reported on a local infant school in 1835... Is this just saying the Glasgow Herald supported the purpose of cheerfulness? This whole paragraph feels like it doesn't have a clear thing being communicated, it needs better links between sentences.
  • in theory supervised was it not actually supervised?
  • The source says In the infant school playground, children were both supervised constantly – at least in the ideal – and restricted in their activity. I assume they mean it depended on the quality of the school.--Llewee (talk) 14:50, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although, teachers were advised to allow accidents awkward grammar, particularly in function of "although"
  • Play was often conducted in quite a disciplined can you remove quite?
  • children were expected to tidy away the bricks what are the bricks
  • Some equipment was potentially dangerous requiring significant skill could you give an example?
  • Tiered galleries — in which children were seated in progressively higher rows — also played an important role in the structure of infant classrooms. Children would sit in the gallery while listening to a teacher stood in front of them. these can be merged and condensed
  • done
  • It was designed to restrict the movement of older children how? because they were trapped back there?
  • The source says ...containing them, the oldest children, within its structure... I don't think it would be impossible for them to get out. But it would probably be more obvious than if they were sat at a desk at the back of a class, for instance.--Llewee (talk) 16:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • while giving them a clear view of the teacher as a reminder that they were being watched could you quote the text sourcing this?
  • The routine of entering and leaving the gallery reinforced the power hierarchy within the infant school Between students or student and teacher?
  • The relevant text is ...ascending into the gallery required order and discipline as children marched to their places up the steps led by a monitor; it defined the relationship of children with one another, and between children and teacher.--Llewee (talk) 16:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • industrialisation related to steam-power rw, awkward

Integration into state system and rote learning

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  • But parents often relied on reword to remove "but"
  • While children under six were exempt... unclear how ending clause of sentence links to this.
  • In addition, many children as young as 2 or 3 years were also enrolled at school both before and after these acts. redundant
  • Babies' classes were somewhat inadequate for the youngest children how so?
Apologies, I read this as taking issue with being taught "to speak clearly, to understand pictures, to recite the alphabet and to march to music" Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 17:25, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • using pens to keep children in their seats around each individual seat??
  • The culture of the payment-by-results system remained even though it had ended been formally ended?

Shift to child-centred approach

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  • He interpreted Froebel's ideas in a broader way specify
  • Insight into the experience of attending an Edwardian infant school can be seen in the memoirs of Ivan G. Grimshaw and Maude Morgan Thomas. The two writers were immigrants to the United States who were respectively born in Yorkshire, England in 1900 and Monmouthshire, Wales in 1901. They both published books in the 1930s about their early lives which were intended for American children. Both of the authors discussed their first years at school; avoid discussion of scholarship in article about subject, unless notable. Can be summarized ruthlessly.
  • Are Grimshaw and Thomas' experiences claimed in RS to be representative?
  • recreated human beings' intellectual development as a species or as individuals?
  • also played a role in?
  • while new infant schools were better fitting fitting or fitted?
ditto--Llewee (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • While school inspectors generally supported the new ethos there was some opposition could you provide a quote supporting this from the source?
  • A quote is included which supports the second part - Educational philosophy had become dangerously romantic since the [First World] war ... It aimed at civilizing children rather than instructing them - the source doesn't provide one supporting the first part .--Llewee (talk) 23:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Part of primary education

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  • The proportion of infant stages that were in separate schools rw
  • as the focus was on catering to children of compulsory school age reword, awkward
  • aged three to seven the article sometimes uses aged three years and other times uses aged three. It should be revised for consistency.

Outside Britain

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  • The early infant school movement influenced the creation of École maternelle in France. Colonial governments imported British practices into their territories. stumpy sentences, link.
  • Sorry, I though I had answered all these. Must not have saved. I'd rather do this one as the two sentences are about quite different topics. I've added also to the second one to establish a degree of continuity.--Llewee (talk) 10:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • For instance, in 1855, the government of Victoria, in modern Australia, wrote to the central education authority in England and Wales requesting two trained teachers to run a model example of an Infant School. They would be offered money for their passage as well as a substantial wage. A married couple quickly accepted. this feels really off topic and as an example doesn't add anything.
  • From their point of view, it seemed logical to prepare children to be more effective workers in the future while they were still too young to have much current usefulness. -> This was to prepare children to be effective workers while they were too young to be used.
  • provide an incentive for -> incentivise
  • An infant school society was established in 1820s Dublin which, like the regional infant school societies in Britain, established infant schools with the aim of addressing social problems.
  • with the aim of -> to repeated issue, wordy sentences
  • Change second use of established to avoid repetition
  • Should be split into two sentences for readability
  • The new "national schools" included infant classes for younger children while a number of model infant schools were established with the aim of providing training facilities and serving as an example to others. There was a degree of ambiguity about what age range this referred to, children were often admitted at two years
  • for younger children redundant
  • while inappropriate use of word, reword
  • established fourth "established" in three sentences.
  • with the aim of providing -> to provide
  • training facilities clarify who for
  • serving as an example to others redundant if they are "model" infant schools. If you don't feel that is adequately communicated through model, remove it.
  • a degree of ambiguity -> some ambiguity
  • this referred to is this the national schools or the model infant schools?
  • this referred to, children were use a semicolon or conjunction.

All else

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  • The school was founded and personally funded by John Mathias Turner, the Bishop of Calcutta, so closed soon after his death in 1831. a bit awkward at the end
  • organised the establishment of the Calcutta Infant School Society in 1833 -> established?
  • One account of a later missionary infant school suggests children were being taught in both languages. What is lost by saying Later missionary infant schools taught children in both languages?
  • The source says evidence about the New Zealand missionary schools is very limited and sporadic. This is just one example and other missionary infant schools at about the same time appear to have been teaching a solely Maori curriculum.--Llewee (talk) 22:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • One unusually detailed account of an infant school timetable suggested they were teaching a similar curriculum to their British counterparts. same with this.
  • These methods were therefore influenced by the American Infant school movement which was significant at the time. rw end of sentence
  • Financial support for infant schools was declining by the middle of the 1830s. The difficulties they faced were partially due to competition for philanthropy from the developing public school system and personal disputes. reword, awkward. This paragraph is pretty wordy, should be simplified.
  • Perhaps "In 1986, Pence argued that a recurring theme in American public debate throughout the 19th and 20th centuries was the concern that care for young children outside the home might undermine the family." ? Not really shorter but I think clearer. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 13:24, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consistency with hyphenating ...-year-old vs year old
  • MOS:LEADLENGTH: The article is ~7800 words (including current lede), so should have four paragraphs in the lede.

Sources

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  • [10] Green tickY
  • [20] Green tickY
  • [30] Green tickY
  • [40] Green tickY
  • [50] Green tickY
  • [60] This page range is too big, can you break it down? Magenta clockclock
  • [70] Green tickY
  • [80] Red XN I think you've cited the wrong page
  • [90] Green tickY

Other

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  • NPOV Green tickY No issues
  • OR/COPYVIO Green tickY 7.4% earwig, titles
  • Broad Green tickY
  • Neutral Green tickY
  • Stable Green tickY
  • Images:
  • File:Playground of the Home and Colonial Infant School Society, L Wellcome V0014795.jpg is in the PD, not under copyright
  • File:Beckside Infants c.1900s (archive ref DDPD-2-2-8) (25384528296).jpg same with this one
  • A few more. Have a look through Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 16:11, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • done

Suggestions

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  • around 25% of people in Britain -> a quarter

Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 07:50, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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