Talk:Immigration and crime

This page was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

keep, 3 December 2010, see discussion.
No consensus leaning keep, 23 February 2010, see discussion.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Immigration and crime article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 2 months

Sociology Mid‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Statistics Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Statistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of statistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.StatisticsWikipedia:WikiProject StatisticsTemplate:WikiProject StatisticsStatistics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Conservatism Mid‑importance

	Conservatism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wiki Education assignment: Adding Immigrants Quantitative Sources for Latinx Immigration History

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2022 and 6 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Estanley25 (article contribs).

Allegedly "Inflammatory Charges"

@Superb Owell, it must be noted that none of these changes are made without the backing of reliable sources; even if they are uncomfortable, uncomfortable facts are still facts, and that information, quite relevant to this page, needs inclusion. It cannot be said, in the lead, that (according to some singular, obscure researcher, of course) there is no correlation between immigration and crime, while later in the page it is revealed that the data is actually seriously conflicting between countries, with some countries seeing immigrant criminality that is overwhelmingly disproportionate. This is a flagrant violation of WP:weight when honestly evaluating the data, and though I will admit that my changes could be altered to some degree to achieve a more perfectly unbiased reflection of said data, I do defend the notion that some changes need to be made. What say you? JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the sources you included were not WP:RS. For example, GB News, Remix News (which has been designated as linked to Russia [1]), Civilek (which appears to be heavily pro-Orban), testimony from one conservative European Parliament politician. WP:RSPSS is a good guide for which sources are usable.

That being said I agree that the lead could have been a more accurate reflection of the article as a whole and de Haas was given too much weight, so I moved him down to the body. JSwift49 14:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was not aware of the ties of Remix or Civilek, nor was I aware that GB News is considered too partisan to be a reliable source. That being said, I included multiple sources for every claim so that at least one for each was comfortably factual and non-partisan.

Ultimately, my concern is not just that de Hass is given too much weight in the lead, but that sources which found little correlation between immigration and crime, sources which disproportionately use American data, which is not representative of this relationship worldwide, are overrepresented.

Some countries (Denmark, UK, Germany) clearly see a correlation, and others (United States, Canada) clearly don't. The lead should explicitly say this. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 21:20, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Immigrants are disproportionately represented in the prison populations of many Western countries, with the notable exception of the United States" captures this well. If you can point to a reliable secondary source that specifically says immigrants commit more crimes in some countries (rather than individual studies, whose results appear to be mixed), I think it could be added. JSwift49 12:38, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's prison populations for Denmark:

https://jurij-fedorov.medium.com/danish-crime-rates-per-nationality-9921acfb620

Here's a research paper detailing crime statistics by immigration status, and of some specific crimes, in Sweden:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_and_Crime_in_Sweden_in_the_Twenty-First_Century

These are biased sources, but what they are reporting is definitely true; just no other paper feels comfortable pointing it out:

https://thecritic.co.uk/fined-over-facts/

https://jungefreiheit.de/politik/deutschland/2022/anteil-auslaendischer-sextaeter/

The evidence is bountiful, if uncomfortable. JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 22:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops.

I recently made the edit[2] with the summary "Reducing WP:REFCLUTTER." I later realized I was logged out. StarkReport (talk) 13:33, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable people

In the regions sections of immigration and crime, are we allowed to include notable people in them? I am thinking of adding Kimberlee Singler in the UK section. She illegally immigrated to the UK after shooting her two kids and boxing her 11 year old daughter. ShawarmaFan07 (talk) 11:41, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]