Talk:Ijazah/Archive 1

Archive 1

POV issues

I have removed the section entitled 'absence of Muslim scholarship' as this was an unreferenced commentary which conveyed a personal point of view rather than providing the encyclopedic coverage which Wikipedia requires. This is not a forum for arguments about which religious or educational system is superior/inferior. John Snow II (talk) 11:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Removed unreferenced section

I have removed an unreferenced section from this fascinating article as it did not yet meet the standards required for Wikipedia. I hope the contributor will take this in a constructive light. To be reintroduced, it will need the addition appropriate references and a more neutral tone. John Snow II (talk) 19:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Ijazah Limitations

The following contribution is spot on. I removed the part about there being no ijazah for non hadith and quran sciences as this is blatantly absurd. The system is designed to vet people for high moral standards and character before giving permission to teach just about anything. There is a new book called Hijama vs. Cupping that discusses this in more detail, we published it, so someone else needs to include it if they thought it appropriate. http://www.hijamavscupping. The source used is very weak and from a non-Muslim, to validate these facts you, of course, need someone with an ijaza to speak on the subject. Sort of ironic hmmmmm. BrokenEarthOrg (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:50, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I would add that teaching someone how to make the Sultan's tea likely needed an ijazah. I am serious, tea making, like in China, was an art form. You had to rinse the leaves, let them relax and then make the tea. It was a real process, but so worth it. The Ijazah is necessary because people impart their enrergy on what they do. Look at the works of Masaru Emoto on energy resonance to get a better understanding of this. Dirty people should not touch your tea. A very good reason not to eat out. We are just starting to get an understanding of the importance of clean energy on our selves, food, body. Doctors delivering babies now, is one such example of horrible energy that in fact disrupts the process of the angels on the birthing mother. People are so foolish today!!!!! BrokenEarthOrg (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

If this sort of comment is indicative of the overall knowledge and mental state of the average recipient of an Ijizyah , I would classify the Ijizyah as a method of removing knowledge from a person and rendering less intelligent than they were before. Just delusional self-pleasing Islamic supermacist garbage. I would like an Islamicist to do for me one thing, please describe briefly why your religion is a good one, without mentioning any other religion. Please for a single second try to define your religion in the positive, rather than your typical purely negative justification where you provide no arguments for why it is so besides insults and bigotry towards others. You are literally incapable of justifying yourself in any way that does not consist of putting down others. Oh your tea taste bad, it's because a dirty kaffir touched it. Your baby wasn't delivered appropriately, clearly it's because he didn't have appropriate Islamic beliefs and had nothing to do with his knowledge of medicine in the real world.

As for your suggestion that sources from non-Muslims be prohibited as valid contributions to this article, literally nothing could be more ridiculous. Have you read the rules of this site? On what portion of the rules of this site is anything said about requiring a source to be from adherents of a particular religion? How imperious and disrespectful you are! You have your own rules and you walk around ignoring everyone else's and self-righteously insisting on imposing your own instead, all while insulting everyone who doesn't adhere to your particular religion as inherently unworthy, lacking knowledge and morality. And you call this behavior "morality" and wonder why everyone hates you. You are the least moral people there are. The most bigoted and most evil people are all the most religious, it is precisely the opposite of what you say, religious people are the cruelest and most evil and most intolerant and most violent of them all, they are the least moral of us all, they are the opposite of where morality comes from. All you do is judge and self-righteously insult others while sniffing your own farts. If anything Islamic sources should be entirely prohibited from the outset and practicing religious people should be assumed to be liars and prohibited, because you never tell the truth, you just lie hypocritically for your own benefit and attack others. As if we should ever treat seriously as a source anyone who seriously holds the opinion that a source is "weak" because of the religion of the person it comes from! Just outright religious bigotry! You cry and whine about your persecution and how everyone treats YOU unfairly, while YOU yourself treat everyone else like garbage! If we applied your own standards to you you would whine to high heaven! Lying immoral bigoted religious hypocrite!2601:140:8900:61D0:C860:FF5C:7447:54ED (talk) 08:47, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Ijazahs were issued in MULTIPLE FIELDS

The proof is right in the page! There is an image of an ijazah in CALLIGRAPHY. Which is an ART, not a religious science. Just the same, there were ijazahs for RECITATION of the Qur'an, which itself was more of an art form than a religious science, such as Islamic Law (fiqh). It's commonly known in the Muslim world that ijazahs were (and still are in some parts) issued even for fighting (martial arts). If you take out the actual certificate or paper ijazah, the master/apprentice system was common in the Middle Ages, and was pioneered by Muslims in all fields. There was a special on the History Channel (which is viewable on YouTube) about the Mughals' advances in sword making and archery... there were no literal paper-certificate ijazahs mentioned, but the knowledge of how to make certain Mughal weapons, including bows/arrows as well as firearms, were passed down in a similar system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.199.23 (talk) 01:18, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Sharia is the basis of all learning, in that regard all ijaaza's would have an Islamic law component to them, but would not be restricted to the field of sharia. In fact the ijaaza system includes all discplins that require training or learning. This articla contains extreme Christian bias with the authors desperate to place Eurpoean academics above Islamic academics. The overwhelming evidence suggests the opposite. During the so-called dark ages Eurpoean elites sent their children to the best schools in the world, those schools were in the Ottoman Empire. The effrots to destroy those centers of learning are well documented, as the war to destroy the culture of islam was almost complete. You would think that an Islamic topic would be dominated by Islamic scholars, not western thinking. The information war continues . . . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.237.177.66 (talk) 23:42, 19 May 2012 (UTC) :

If all learning is from Sharia and learning not derived from Sharia does not provide any useful or meaningful knowledge apparently, how did we conquer and subjugate every single Islamic country besides Iran and Turkey with no knowledge of Sharia at all? And why should any topic about any religion be dominated only by clerics from that religion? Should the article on Christianity be written entirely by Catholic priests applying naively the biases and propaganda of the Catholic church? What about writing every article on Judaism from the perspective of Orthodox Rabbis, who will of course literally accept every word of the Torah as true and present themselves as the sole conduits of knowledge from Moses on Sinai? Should an encyclopedia just be a regurgitation of the self-pleasing tales that adherents of partisans of any one religion tell themselves? If Islamic scholars wish to contribute to this knowledge, they should write accessible and neutral articles that do so an enlighten others. Instead they refuse to do anything but talk among themselves, why poison yourself by touching a kaffir, and produce rants on nonsense like how much better their religion is than others, why they should control the government and all laws in society, and issuing prohibitions on various trivialities and ignorant subjects with the obligatory takfir attached and citing no sources (indicating that this is in all likelihood the product of no learning besides their own individual caprice and biases).2601:140:8900:61D0:C860:FF5C:7447:54ED (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Christian/Jewish bias

In fact the entire doctoral programs are based on the ijazah system - they have forgotten about the moral character component and you see where we with that now. Good job. I will try to help you edit this, but the opposition to anything that makes Islam look noble, is as you know fearce! BrokenEarthOrg (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Morality has nothing at all to do with Sharia law, Sharia law is the opposite of justice, the more a person knows of this masturbatory medieval man made legal code, the less knowledge of morality they have. All it teaches is ignorance and universal hatred of humanity according to a self-righteous judgement of the world, non-Muslims of course are hated and considered less than human, but even worse than non-Muslims to are the 99% of Muslims who don't live a perfect life exactly according to medieval Islamic rules in the judgement of the jurist and are thus apostates and even lower than the non-Muslim. Which is why Sharia terrorists wind up killing more Muslims seemingly than anyone else, there's nothing more dangerous to a Muslim than someone who's learned too much of Sharia law. Sharia teaches how to dehumanize and exterminate the world universally, it teaches murder, it teaches totalitarian control and total absence of freedom. Of course the self-reghteous jurist is probably just as sinful as the rest of them but he lies and forgives himself, yes that prestigious ulema with that beautiful ijazah, while giving coded orders to his students to strap bombs to their chest and blow themselves up while of course he himself never chooses to strap a bomb to his own precious chest and meet Allah in Jannah, that masterful genius of Islamic science probably then goes off to Dubai and fucks western models imported as highly paid prostitutes, drinks alcohol, watches pornography, and gives himself a pass the entire time as the holiest of men, after all he has a holy Ijazah and is guaranteed Jannah. And after all it's the fault of the existing society for existing and tempting him with such things, it's only right that he attempt to slaughter the entire world for doing such things until eventually the temptations do not exist for him and he can live a sin free life. In the mean time he will continue advocating the murder of others for doing such things while doing that himself, as he is God's servant and the rules don't apply to him.2601:140:8900:61D0:C860:FF5C:7447:54ED (talk) 08:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

This article needs expansion

Ijazah, ijaaz or ijaazah is not limited to the study of the Islamic sciences, Qur'an, Hadith, Seerah, etc. It applies to all disciplines that require a level of expertise. One good example is cupping or hijama. The current trend is to try and make hijama a course that can be studied via a book or distance learning program. Hijama or Cupping is very easy to learn but an ijaaza in cupping or hijama is not based on mastery of the technical aspects of the discipline. As with all ijaazza authorizations, they come from persons trained from a line of experts dating back to the Prophetic teaching or method. An ijaaza was only awarded to someone who displayed an advanced moral maturity far beyond mastering the technical or academic aspects of the discipline. Therefore, the smartest kid in the class was not necessarily the person who received an ijaaza. If we had an ijaaza system for Western medicine, banking, etc. we would not have the moral decay we are experiencing in these fields. Doctors no longer have training in morality and consequently have become anything but healers.

Even today, young Muslim men and women study overseas and think they obtain what is being represented as ijaaza certification or authorization and are not really receiving a true ijaaza. The system of ijaaza has been polluted on two fronts. First, the university system that emphasizes academic achievement and science and dismisses everything to do with spirituality and real training has taken front stage. And second, the lack of true understanding by self proclaimed scholars or sheikhs concerning what authorization or ijaaza really means - thus handing them out like candy to children. The mix between someone who received a doctorate degree from a "secular" university with partial knowledge of the ijaaza system has greatly clouded the true meaning. A real ijaaza only comes from a real sheikh an authorized teacher. A person who has become a real human being - studying under a person literally authorized by Prophet Muhammad. Direct authorization. This is in fact possible, but academics and scientists have not perfected their heart to the point where they have activated the senses of the heart which enables a true aspirant to spiritually see, hear, taste, smell and feel to the point you may meet and literally sit with Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). If not reaching this level, who is authorized to say this is the Prophetic teaching? Authorized teachers of hadith were computers able to spit out thousands of hadith exactly as they were transmitted without a single mistake. This does not come from memorization it comes from a pure connection. It is not knowledge of the mind, it is knowledge of the heart.

Without a basic understanding of the above you can not convey the meaning of ijaaza.

Muslims have lost their way and deny these realities. Nonetheless, the general public should understand that ijaaza is something much more than mere academic scholarship. It is someone authorized by a holy (whole) person.

We should close all of our universities and start fresh. Raising morally acceptable people to lead all fields.

Comments before posting please! Anyone have "book" sources?  :-) Not possible, so how do you include heart knowledge on Wikipedia that relies on book references?

BeUnknown (talk) 14:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Islamacist nonsense... the Islamic claims that their Ulema are direct descendants of teaching from the Prophet Muhammad is no more convincing, valid, or meaningful than the claim of Catholic priests to Apostolic Succession ultimately originating from Jesus or the claims of Jewish rabbis to have an unbroken chain of teachings dating back to Moses's revelation at Sinai. The Ijizya is similar to this, a folk theological claim to descent and authority from some magical figure in the past, that is in all likelihood made up. The doctorate in truth has nothing to do with this, while it is related in a way to claims of apostolic secession it's long been controlled by secular authorities and divided into particular specializations largely having to do with the real, natural world. It was freed from the oppressive control of the religious establishment and people were allowed to expand knowledge in any way they wish. The older system remains in the Seminary, although claiming that the degrees supplied by a Seminary, Madrassa, or Yeshiva are superior to that provided a university is just silly, the knowledge provided is not comparable in any meaningful way, it is like comparing water molecules to justice.

As well the past 30 years of extreme Islamic revival and turning away from the rational and natural world to find "morally acceptable people" has seemingly produced nothing but endless terrorism, mass murder, genocide, poverty throughout the Muslim world, ignorance, backwardness, and the formation of the most universally reviled and evil organization since the Nazi party of Germany (in the form of ISIS). Is this the heartfelt morality that Islam has to offer the world? Your claim that modern Muslim problems are the result of failure to be religious enough, when in reality the Islamic world has been swinging radically to ever increasing inward looking masturbatory religiosity and religious extremism for nearly half a century, to the point they are by now widely recognized as the most religiously obsessive society in the world, with seemingly nothing but negative effects on the state of their societies, is laughable. How many times are Islamists going to try and fail before you give up and join the real world?2601:140:8900:61D0:C860:FF5C:7447:54ED (talk) 08:13, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Ijaaza Superior to doctorl degree

"which was equivalent to the Doctor of Laws qualification and was developed during the 9th century"

SHOULD READ:

"which was superior to the Doctor of Laws qualification and was developed during the 9th century"

The current doctoral programs are in fact a degradation of the ijaaza system. A true ijaaza is something much higher than mere academic training. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BeUnknown (talk • contribs) 14:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

A certificate granting someone religious authority is incomparable to an academic degree. It's comparable at best to the learning given by Christian seminaries or Jewish Yeshivas. Saying that the Madrassa is inherently superior to the seminary or the yeshiva is nothing but Islamic supremacists garbage. As for comparison to an an academic degree in the natural sciences, again, this is laughable. If the certificates given to the ulema provide such unfathomably greater knowledge in all areas than the degrees given to Physicists, I would like to see them build an atomic collider. In fact the ijaaza is basically just memorizing your own particular faiths core scripture and learning how to regurgitate a bunch of masturbatory ancient legal medieval legal and theological arguments and jargon formed by the inward looking Islamic clerical class as it seized an iron grip on Muslim society in the 11th century, closed everyone's minds, and drove a once powerful, free, and great civilization squarely into the ground. And now it wants a second chance of course. The Ijaaza is more comparable to the certificates that late imperial Chinese mandarins gave to each other for passing the imperial examination and learning how to write an "Eight-Legged Essay" of appropriate form in grammatically correct, unchanged Ancient Chinese from 3000 years ago full of various masturbatory references to ancient Confucian ethics and internal disputes and documents written by the Mandarins among each other. These essays are, in modern terms, completely illegible because they have nothing at all to do with the real world, just the internal fantasies of a long outdated order that refused to change and drove Chinese civilization into the ground. Luckily the Communists took power in China and eradicated the Mandarin class, and China is on the rise again. It is truly unfortunate that Islamic society never had a Mao Zedong with the guts to do the same to the parasitic Islamic Ulema, who have knowledge of nothing but smelling each others farts and finding them extremely pleasing.2601:140:8900:61D0:C860:FF5C:7447:54ED (talk) 08:00, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 18 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EHAY0100.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:49, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

How exactly can you have "face to face interaction" "at the feet" of your instructor?

Presumably neither of these phrases is meant to be taken literally. DS (talk) 16:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)