Talk:Iğdır Province

New districts.. Time passes fast

Yep...Igdir. One of the new districts made a province while I was away :-) Thanks for the correction! mu5ti 01:14, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Igdir in 1918-1920

I removed the 1919-1920 sentence. "Genocide" supposedly was between 1915-1917, but the sentence says "Igdir was mostly Armenian untill 1919-1920, untill the genocide" (I guess the Turks from 1915 travelled the future to 1919 and killed everyone). Obvious discrepancy.

Igdir in 1919 at the time under the control Armenian forces [1]. Armenians did constitute the largest ethnic group but the majority of the population was not Armenian, it was Yezidi, Tatar and Turk combination [2] All types of people (including non-Armenians) died from famine, not from anything else. If requested, I can upload the entire newspaper. Let me know if you need more sources. --Oguz1 16:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

It is a clear cut fact that Igdir was a majority Armenian region around 1918-1920 (and no, Yezidis are Kurds not Turks and are also not Muslim so they cannot be collectively counted with Tatars and other Turkic groups). The Armenians in this region not only died of starvation, but they were also deliberately killed. This account from National Geographic proves it: [3]

I'm not sure if these events can still be described as part of the Armenian Genocide as most historians believe that the Genocide took place between 1915 and 1917 - the killing of the Igdir Armenians occured in 1918-1920. Therefore, I have changed this to read:

A majority Armenian population remained in the area throughout this history of struggle between great powers. However, in 1919-1920 most either died or fled due to starvation and ethnic cleansing.

I also split off the paragraph on Kurds and Azerbaijanis living in the region into a seperate "Demographics" section.

I have also removed the note about the creation of a Statue and Museum commemorating the "genocide of Turks by Armenians" because it can easily lead to a dispute between Turkish and Armenian users. In a sense, this monument only commemorates the denial of what really happened in Igdir in 1918-1920. -- Aivazovsky 14:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Also the Turkish-Armenian border at Igdir is not marked by the Akhurian River but the Aras River. -- Aivazovsky 15:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The Muslim information is irrelevant and the Kurds should be mentioned as being the majority in the demographics section. -- Aivazovsky 23:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Kurds were mentioned as the majority. Please see my version. I think the Muslim information is relevant, but we can remove the one next to Armenian oblast, though I would rather keep it. Erivan khanate one should stay. deniz^T_C 23:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I readded it. -- Aivazovsky 23:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

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the Turkish elections

...are not a reliable source. We go by what reliable sources say and nothing more. The reliable sources say the province is majority Kurdish. Athenean (talk) 05:26, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, It gives you an idea. The population consist of both peoples. Beshogur (talk) 11:28, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the article currently mentions there are Azerbaijanis. But the reliable sources point to a Kurdish majority. As did even the election results. HDP won Igdir. Athenean (talk) 00:23, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree election results are not reliable. People generally do not vote according to their ethnic identity. Moreover HDP won the elections right but one of the candidate from HDP was Azeri as far I remember.--Abbatai 10:24, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Igdir Province/City demographics

Abbatai states that the demographics in Igdir province was historically Azerbaijani. Can you please provide the source for that? If that is indeed the case, we should work on a compromise together. For example, we can add something like "The province was historically Azerbaijani, and the its capital city was majority Armenian" or something.Étienne Dolet (talk) 20:17, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

No, not at all. I did not claim the demographics in Iğdir province was historically Azerbaijani. It was you claiming "However, the majority of the population was historically Armenian..." historical Armenian majority in this edit. First of all city population data from 1897 cannot be added to province and then said historically the province had Armenian majority. The history of province starts from 1992. Between 1992-2016 there has never been an Armenian majority. You clearly pov pushing. Even though we could add the 1897 statistics your edit is still problematic. Here you are: According to the Russian family lists accounts from 1886, of the total 71,066 inhabitants of the districts 34,351 were Azerbaijanis (48.3%, mentioned as 'Tatars' in the source), 22,096 Armenians (31.1%) and 14,619 Kurds (20.6%). In Iğdır city article it says Azerbaijanis were majority at some point. Clearly your edit was Armenian POV push. --Abbatai 21:11, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

That's fine. So as a compromise edit, do you think we can add something like: "The province was historically Azerbaijani, while its provincial capital city was majority Armenian."? Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:04, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Iğdır Province was a mixed region till Turkish-Armenian War. Armenians and Muslims (Azerbaijanis and Kurs) were neighbor on each other. Actually it's quite surprised to hear that Armenians were majority in Iğdır Province. Because, majority means more than half. Some years Armenians became majority due to Russian policies but they never become a vast majority. Some cities and towns were consisted of Armenian majority but if we include rural areas, it's impossible. Because most of Armenians were merchant and craftsman in Ottoman period. On the other hand, Azerbaijanis (interestingly they are regarded as Tatars in all Russian census records) and Kurds were farmers and specialized in animal husbandry. Of course I regard after 16th century. I wish I could know Russian, thus I could reach more sources :(--Sabri76'^talk 20:43, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

ED sorry for late reply. No I still do not think the Armenian population of city has place in this article. There is already a separate article on Iğdır City and it is written there. Thanks --Abbatai 09:25, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

References

Shia Muslims and Sunni Muslims in the Caucasian Calendar

@37.155.68.33 Dear IP, please acquaint yourself with the Wikipedia policy "Original Research" – Basically, since the original source doesn't explicitly say Tatars (the Russian Empire's term for Azerbaijanis) or Turks, we cannot interpret 100% of the "Shia Muslims" and "Sunni Muslims" written in the source to be Azerbaijanis and Turks, respectively. However, if you found a reliable source that interprets the Caucasian Calendar's "Shia Muslims" and "Sunni Muslims" to be Azerbaijanis and Turks, that would provide sufficient grounds for change. To be clear, if you reference a source which simply states that most Azerbaijanis are Shia Muslim and most Turks Sunni Muslim, that may be considered WP:SYNTH to apply it specifically in the case of the Caucasian Calendar. If you still have any more questions, feel free to post them and I will try to answer. – Olympian ^loquere 10:22, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Contains some Turkish anti-Armenian propaganda

The alleged "massacre" of 150 Turks and burning of "many" villages is not contextualised as part of resistance to the ongoing genocide of Armenians on a scale of many thousands of times larger. LumpiSpoerl (talk) 07:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)