Talk:United States lightship Huron (LV-103)

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This article really needs a picture

Not to overstate the obvious.7&6=thirteen (talk) 02:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Stan[reply]

Unfortunately, my reading of the lightship article leads me to infer that the picture of the "Relief" would not be of Boat #103, which was called "#103", "Huron Lightship" and "Manitou" during its service. See the Terry Pepper Seeing the Light article. ^[1] What do you think? 7&6=thirteen (talk) 16:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)Stan[reply]

The original purpose of the ship was as a relief vessel. The picture was taken shortly after it's commissioning as such....Asher196 (talk) 16:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stub class

When I cross 10000 bytes, I entertained the thought that this might be rated START class at least. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 21:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

Lightship No. 61 "Corsica Shoals" on Lake Huron

In Shipwrecks of the 1913 Great Lakes storm there is an omission. This lightship was destroyed on Lake Huron.^[2] It isn't listed, and it obviously should be. It's being offsite was a contributing factor in the loss of the Matthew Andrews, which is listed. ^[3] See also Huron Lightship. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 20:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

This is not a STUB class anymore. It should rate at least a START Class.

Not a stub anymore. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 18:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC) Stan[reply]

I've bumped it to B class for WP:SHIPS and start class for the rest as I'm not familiar enough with their rating systems. You may want to consider trimming down on the external links section, however. --Brad (talk) 21:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've assessed it as C-class for WikiProject Michigan. In my opinion, several relatively small improvements would raise it to B-class: portions of the prose are somewhat awkward, the ship is inconsistently referred to using both female (she, her, etc.) and non-gender (it, etc.) terms, and the "Further reading" section is empty. cmadler (talk) 20:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

Engine restoration references

This was posted on my talk page by Editor User:7&6=thirteen. I've copied it here because discussion about an article is best when it occurs where all editors who wish can participate.

It helps to look at whether the same information exists elsewhere on the web. Obviously, WP:linkrot is a fact. But is also useful to note that the Port Huron Times Herald article (that is a newspaper!) did not cease to exist (even though its URL was degraded) and that there is an MP3 of the interview and the engines. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not really clear what point you are trying to make.

1. This particular reference in the article was:

Clark, Sue, Lightship Huron’s Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again, Lighthouse News, December 17, 2007., a dead link.

2. I changed it to this link which I moved from §External links per WP:ELRC:

Clark, Sue (17 December 2007). "Lightship Huron's Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again". Port Huron Times Herald. Retrieved 2012-09-01.

3. You added this link (which I didn't notice until this morning) to §External links:

Clark, Sue (December 16, 2007). "Lightship Huron's Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again". Lighthouse News. Retrieved September 1, 2012. including a link to hear the engines.

4. You then added that same citation as a reference immediately following the reference I fixed at (2) above:

Clark, Sue (December 16, 2007). "Lightship Huron's Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again". Lighthouse News. Retrieved September 1, 2012. including a link to hear the engines.

5. This I noticed, so I combined your edit (4) with my edit (2):

Clark, Sue (16 December 2007). "Lightship Huron's Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again". Lighthouse News. Retrieved 2012-09-01.</ref> including a link to hear the engines.</ref>

6. You added "/Port Huron Times Herald" to |work=:

Clark, Sue (16 December 2007). "Lightship Huron's Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again". Lighthouse News/Port Huron Times Herald. Retrieved 2012-09-01.

7. I deleted your edit (3) per WP:ELRC

8. You added text, deleted an extraneous </ref> tag that I left dangling at my edit (5), and named Ms Clark's citation.

From Ms Clark's article:

Volunteers with the Port Huron (Michigan) Museum this week have finished putting on the last tweaks to the engine that ran the 97 foot lightship’s electricity, according to a story in the Port Huron Times Herald.

I read that to mean that Ms Clark is NOT the author of the Port Huron Times Herald article—she may be but that point isn't made clear. That lack of clarity suggests that our citation should not list the Port Huron Times Herald as a source.

I don't dispute that there is still an active link to the MP3 of the interview and engine sounds (not the GM main engines as the current text of our article seems to imply, but rather the sounds of the starboard foghorn engine).

After enumerating all of this, I'm still at a loss as to what I've done that has upset you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Port Huron Times Herald article is still a source. It said all of what was in the lighthouse article. It put it in at the time. That you can't verify it now doesn't change anything. WP:AGF. Linkrot doesn't do away with the source. Nor is it reason to remove a source. Essentially, you created a problem, and now say that we can't fix it because you can't find the source five years later. Ipse dixit is contrary to policy in this instance. That is all. Sorry for overreacting. 15:15, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added a new-line and an indent to your post for clarity and to separate it from mine.

I presume that instead of "It put it in at the time," you meant "I put it in at the time." I can see that you did that at this edit where your citation is to greatlakesshipwatchers.com but not to the Port Huron Times Herald. You also added a link to §External links with these five consecutive edits. There, you first introduce the Port Huron Times Herald though the link you provide is to Lighthouse News and not to Port Huron Times Herald.

On my first encounter with this article, the dead-link reference did not point to the Port Huron Times Herald site but still pointed to greatlakesshipwatchers.com. Here again is that citation:

Clark, Sue, Lightship Huron’s Twin GM Diesels To Roar Again, Lighthouse News, December 17, 2007.

In it you gave us the author, the title, and an approximate date. We also have at least two versions of Ms Clark's greatlakesshipwatchers.com blog post source at archive.org:

29 April 2008

7 October 2008

Both are four lines of text and a link to Ms Clark's article at the Lighthouse News site, several copies of which are also in the internet archive. Ms Clark links to a 15 December 2007 Port Huron Times Herald article by Molly Montag. That article is no longer available on the Port Huron Times Herald website. Here is an abstract from the paper's archive site: Museum Gets Motors Running (abstract). Her article is not archived at archive.org.

Ms Montag's article was not being used as a reference or citation in this article when I first encountered it. I'm at a loss to understand how I have caused a problem by repointing a dead-link reference to Ms Clark's article. Yeah, I skipped her four-line blog post and went directly to her Lighthouse News article.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:21, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As long as we get the links in, I'm sure it will work out. Unfortunately, the Port Huron Times Herald is unavailable; as with a lot of print newspapers, they probably would like to see us the article. I don't think we should worry about 'fixing the blame'. My only predisposition is that I invested quite a bit of effort in this, and I don't want it to deteriorate. I just want the best article we can do, and I'm sure you do too. Don't worry, be happy. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I would much rather do my thing than rebut accusations of wrong-doing. If you want to pay the money, Ms Montag's Port Huron Times Herald article is available for purchase from the paper's archive site.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:56, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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External links

Nine "External links" is excessive for any article but certainly a B-class article by presenting a WP:LINKFARM as well as not being in compliance with ELPOINTS #3. Otr500 (talk) 03:04, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Terry Pepper, Seeing the Light, Huron lightship.

[2] U.S. Coast Guard on lighthouses and lightships.

[3] Barcus, Frank, Freshwater Fury: Yarns and Reminiscences of the Greatest Storm in Inland Navigation, (1986: Wayne State University Press) 166 pages. ISBN 0-8143-1828-2.

[1]

[2]

[3]