Talk:Huntingtower (novel)

"The novel contrasts the domestic characters, heroes and villains, with their more alien Russian counterparts. Huntingtower is characteristic of Buchan’s novels, particularly in its class-based paternalism; its xenophobic prejudices, which are mitigated by instinctive humanity and dry humour; and its shrewd common-sense understanding of personality and motivation.[citation needed]"

What in this context would be regarded as a "citation"? All critical assessments of literature are subjective as soon as they begin to interpret a text rather than state what it contains. In order to provide a "citation", does one need to refer to the published comment of a professional reviewer, or would it suffice to provide one's own critique, referring to textual evidence straight from Buchan's novels? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleeming (talk • contribs) 00:50, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

No Original Work

Ditto for "citation needed". The article is larded with Fleemings's opinions, which may or may not be valid but are certainly not citations of the novel itself, nor citations of published criticisms of the novel. No original work - or personal opinions! Them's the Wikipedia rules. Edit or be edited! Express your opinions here, on the talk page, like I shall:

I just finished reading the book, and have a very different impression of it. It is indeed a product of its times ("Jews" mentioned perjoratively by Heritage and Saskia, though not protagonist McCunn), and like many Buchan novels, a story of timidity overcome and men, women, and boys banding together to fight evil. After a horribly bloody world war, with the boldest dead (like my great-grandfather) and the lucky fretting that they were cowardly, the aftermath of that war was what Buchan vicariously wrote about and what his readers wanted to read.

For example, "dour"; there's no citation of that in the criticism (spammed link repaired) or in the novel itself. Dickson McCunn is gregarious, informally teaches literature at his church, and strikes up friendly conversations with strangers met on the train and on the road. A successful grocer, dealing with the public all day, could not be otherwise. The novel characterizes McCunn as an irresolute romantic who found courage, as was Buchan himself (IMHO).

"Paternalism?" Only the "upper classes" helped the poor better themselves? Sorry, "paternalism" sounds like "decent human being" to me; in my limited Yank experience, that is almost every Brit I've met. Perhaps I have just met another who isn't.

I do not read Buchan because he is "true", but because he is one window (of many) into pre-world-war-2 Britain, warts and all. History from one who lived it, myths from one who manufactured them. My 1958 Penguin paperback edition has a 3 page rags-to-riches mini-bio of the author. If Fleeming has a better source, I would enjoy reading the book or academic journal he forgot to cite.

Still, Fleeming put the first stake in the ground, and when I get time someday, I hope build a solid (and well-cited) structure to replace it. KeithLofstrom (talk) 05:05, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

I will try to answer your points in the same order.

Anti-semitism is a frequently recurring theme in John Buchan's writing: sadly this was in tune with the zeitgeist of his era. It is very apparent in The Thirty Nine Steps although it is arguable whether Buchan is expressing himself or characterising the doomed spy, Mr Scudder. Perjorative references to Jews crop up in various Buchan novels and it's a pattern, not isolated exceptions; so yes indeed, he and his books were steeped in the spirit of his age. I agree.

Your point about Dickson McCunn's inherent friendliness and good nature is sound but does not contradict his dourness of character. This dourness is not expressed through sullen personality, which Dickson McCunn does not have; it is expressed in actions that demonstrate silent and implacable resolve - stubbornness for want of a better word. He is a man who will not give in if he thinks he is in the right or that others are depending on him. Other characters are repeatedly surprised by this determined and resolute behaviour.

I don't recognise the version of myself in which I allegedly argued that "only the "upper classes" helped the poor better themselves". I was and am observing that John Buchan's book is heavily influenced by the British class system and is quite an accurate portrayal of this class system in operation. Paternalism was and is an integral feature of the class system. However, Buchan also portrays working class self respect and self-improvement; for example the Gorbals Diehards are an unofficial and unadopted boy scouts troop, organised by themselves and for themselves, and good evidence of young boys seeking to improve their own lives in a constructive and lawful way.

I did a little Control F word-search and confirmed that I never once used the word "true". It would have been rather strange to do this when discussing a work of fiction. I would argue though that Huntingtower is reasonably true to life: that it has verisimilitude. This inner truth is exemplified by the very credible characterisations of the minor and well as the leading characters in the story.

Finally, there are a number of useful articles about the life and work of John Buchan, for example in The Spectator written by William Galbraith, and on the Undiscovered Scotland website. It is not difficult to find his conservative social views expressed in his art: I would cite Sick Heart River, the final Edward Leithen story, as a strong example; and also the excellent story John McNab, where we see old money in the form of the three gentleman-poachers pitted against new money in the form of Johnson Claybody. But we also see the generosity and fairness of Buchan's outlook exemplified there in the way Johnson Claybody feels the need to take responsibility for his own misjudgements, for the landless labourer whose leg is broken defending Johnson's land, and for simply having been a fool. He is capable of personal growth; but he is also the victim of his own shallowness and somewhat rootless life as a social climber. John Buchan was quite in favour of people knowing their place and there is good evidence of that in Huntingtower BTW.

John Buchan wrote an autobiography called Memory Holds The Door. He is remembered in history as a significant Governor General of Canada; for example he is the man who signed Canada's declaration of war against Nazi Germany.

Hope this is helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:B38C:4000:F0C1:D5EB:1BAC:C73F (talk) 23:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Confusion

What does "imprisonment under false pretenses by Bolshevik agents of an exiled Russian noblewoman" mean? Can one be imprisoned under correct pretenses by foreign spies? And aren't "class" and "paternalism" two different things? The rambling description reads as if written by a member of the Young Communist League!Royalcourtier (talk) 04:06, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

I am the author of those words and I think I can answer your questions. In the story of the novel, Princess Saskia is lured to Huntingtower in the belief that she will be protected there. It was the family home of her friend, Quentin Kennedy, who as it turns out was killed in the War and the news did not reach her. So she was deceived into going there by her enemies, which is what I alluded to in the phrase "false pretences".

Secondly, "class" and "paternalism" as birds of a feather. Paternalism of the sort associated with the British upper classes are only possible in a hierarchical class system. Paternalism is not necessarily a bad thing; it frequently meant that people in positions of wealth and power had and were acting on a sense of right and wrong and of their moral duty to people in a weaker position who depended on them. One of the traditional yardsticks of old-school gentility was the habit of exercising power over others both responsibly and gracefully. John Buchan's books abound with examples of his affluent and upper class characters behaving with kindness, understanding and common decency towards people from lower class backgrounds, and he several times quotes the Robert Burns line: "A man's a man for a' that" to signify that Jack is just as good as his master. Mr Buchan was very socially conservative and a staunch supporter of the British class system (which still exists), but he was both humane and respectful of the British working class, as I think we see in his portrayal of the Gorbals Diehards and Mrs Morran.

Thirdly, I am not a Communist, nor even a Labour supporter. I am not particularly on the side of any political party, because none of them particularly is on my side or on the side of the people who are near to my heart. Most politicians are only in it for themselves. John Buchan was opposed to most of the things I think, and I am opposed to most of the things he thought, but he was unusual in politics in being honest; I would never have doubted his word if he gave it. I also respect his memory for both his record as a novelist and his record in public service.

Perhaps you might like to write a plot summary for one of his other novels and demonstrate to me how it should be done?