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GA Review

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: UndercoverClassicist (talk · contribs) 10:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: The Morrison Man (talk · contribs) 21:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I'll be taking a look at the article and should be back with comments in the next few days. The Morrison Man (talk) 21:33, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking it on: looking forward to your comments. UndercoverClassicist T·C 09:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@The Morrison Man: Sorry to nudge, but any update? UndercoverClassicist T·C 11:51, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for the major delay, I've been quite sick recently. I've included the notes for the sections composition and collection and transmission below, the rest will follow within 24 hours. If you have any questions or things are unclear, let me know! The Morrison Man (talk) 22:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks -- replies below to this first batch, looking forward to the second. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've addressed these comments where required. The next batch will be up in a few hours. The Morrison Man (talk) 12:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@The Morrison Man: No rush, but any news on those? UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems I forgot to publish my edit, I'll get them to you ASAP. Apologies for the late reply, my internet has been out for the past two days. The Morrison Man (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My sincerest apologies for taking this long. I've published the rest of my comments with this edit. Having looked over the entire article, it adheres to the GA criteria. When we've worked through this last set of comments I will be able to pass it. The Morrison Man (talk) 22:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Composition

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  • “though the Hymn to Ares is considerably later” - Maybe change this to something like “though the Hymn to Ares was made much later”.
  • “are composed in dactylic hexameter” - Perhaps this could be explained, as you do for the following mention of formulae.
  • “one of the Homeridae,” - Swap out the comma for a colon.
  • “hymns’ comparative absence” - Comparative could probably be left out here.
  • “However, few direct statements denying Homer's authorship of the Hymns survive from antiquity: in the second century CE, the Greek geographer Pausanias maintained their attribution to Homer.” - I think this would work better as two separate sentences, cut off at the colon. That would make something like: “However, few direct statements denying Homer’s authorship of the Hymns survive from antiquity. The Greek geographer Pausanias maintained their attribution to Homer in the second century CE.”.
    • I'm not sure it would, as the second part follows from the first: with a full stop, the thought becomes isolated and the connection lost. It's not the shortest sentence, but I don't think it's long enough at 27 words to make splitting it essential. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collection and transmission

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more to follow

Function

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Reception

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Antiquity

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  • Maybe link lyric poetry?
  • Also link Dionysus, Dioscuri and Hermes.
  • “Few secure references” - Maybe change to something like Few confirmed references? Not sure that secure conveys what you're trying to say (which I assume is cases where we know for certain that the reference points to the Homeric Hymns).
    • "Secure" is typical in the literature for this kind of thing (as in "the evidence/case against him is secure": "confirmed", as a passive participle, has the problem that it implies that someone has confirmed them, which isn't the case. I've tried "definite" -- as you say, the point is that we're not always sure whether the reference is to the Hymn itself, or simply to the story that is the source of the Hymn. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • “while the didactic poem Phainomena by Aratus drew on the same poem” - and the didactic poem Phainomena by Aratus drew on the same hymn.
  • Link mythographer, if possible.
    • Hm: it only links to myth, at least at the moment, which I think would not be particularly useful (MOS:OVERLINK advises us to avoid linking common words unless they're being used in an unusual fashion) and would create a WP:SEAOFBLUE, which is also discouraged. In this instance, I think the costs outweigh the benefits: the word itself isn't particularly common, but "myth" is, and the -ographer suffix is also pretty widely understood.
  • Link Apollo
  • Some of the hymn titles are italicised, others are not. I’d suggest making this consistent throughout.
    • Where the title itself is used (e.g. Later in the Aeneid, the account of the theft of Hercules's cattle by the monster Cacus is based upon that of the theft of Apollo's cattle by Hermes in the Homeric Hymn to Hermes, it is italicised. Where the words "hymn(s) to X" are used simply as a description (e.g. His own works quoted from the hymns to Demeter and Apollo, it isn't, and "hymn" is lc. I think this is consistent; let me know if I've missed any. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Late Antiquity to Renaissance

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Early modern period onwards

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List of the Homeric Hymns

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  • What is the reasoning for redlinking some names of individual Hymns but not others?
    • The Hymns have wildly different lengths and literary/scholarly impact. The Hymn to Demeter could very easily be a very long article, as could the Hymn to Aphrodite and the Hymn to Hermes: all are very regularly discussed in scholarship, sometimes at book length, and have had reasonably large cultural influence. Others, such as the Hymn to Dionysus are comparatively short and have not had those things. It might be possible to write a GNG-keeping article on some of them (particularly the longer Dionysus hymn), but I've chosen to redlink only those which I think have really compelling cases. Some, like the Hymn to Hosts, haven't a snowball's chance unless a whole new branch of scholarship springs up. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all of my comments. Thank you for your patience and once again apologies for taking so long to review. The Morrison Man (talk) 22:49, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All very much appreciated: replies above and edits in the article. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the comments were taken care of nicely, I've left a few more reactions and some further comments based on your replies. The Morrison Man (talk) 13:51, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Back to you: I think I've got all of those. UndercoverClassicist T·C 15:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That covers all of my comments then! Considering that the article passes all six Good Article Criteria, I'll pass it shortly. The Morrison Man (talk) 19:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article has now been listed as a GA. Congratulations, and thank you once again for your patience during the review process!! (If you ever find yourself in need of a reviewer in the future, don't hesitate to leave a message on my talk page :)) The Morrison Man (talk) 19:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your efforts, wisdom and sharp eyes throughout: as is the way with the best reviews, I think the article has improved a great deal for the process. Likewise, do drop me a message if you'd like me to return the favour for one of your nominations. UndercoverClassicist T·C 21:26, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]