Talk:History of Australia/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Society and culture: 1960s to present

Hello all

I have significantly expanded this section to take it up to the present. I have also moved the section towards the end of the article to achieve a better balance between a chronological and thematic presentation of information. The section on culture still needs a lot of work. Happy to discuss.Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Indigenous prehistory

Hello all

I have considerably expanded this section. I have replaced some material based on outdated sources with new information based on more recent sources. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:52, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Indigenous history

Hello all

I have significantly expanded the sections on Indigenous history from settlement to the 1960s and have restructured the sections into a more logical order. Previously Indigenous history from 1788 to the 1960s was very potted and presented separately from the the rest of Australian history. This is unsatisfactory because, for better or for worse, the history of Indigenous Australians since 1788 is inextricably interlinked with the history of British settlement and subsequent waves of immigration. In any event, there is already a separate wikipedia article on Australian Indigenous History. The revised article has a more logical order: 1. Indigenous prehistory 2. European exploration 3. British colonisation 4. Impact of British colonisation on Indigenous people. 5. The subsequent history of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:24, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Early European exploration and colonisation

Hello all

I have made substantial edits to the sections on Early European exploration and Colonisation in order to make the existing information more concise and relevant and to make it less reliant on one or two articles. I have also added some new material. Specifically I have:

• Rewritten and summarised information which was lightly paraphrased from articles by Robert J. King. In some cases strings of citations were also lifted from articles by King and presented as if they were separate, supporting, citations. (King’s article Terra Australls, New Holland And New South Wales: The Treaty Of Tordesillas And Australia had been extensively used.)
• Summarised information on early maps of New Holland which was repeated three times in the article and also covered at length in the main article European maritime exploration of Australia.
• Summarised existing information on the plans for colonisation and added new information on the alternative plans for African settlement which were arguably the British government’s preferred option.
• Added new information so the article is less reliant on the views of King (distinguished as he is).
• Moved some information so it is presented in a more logical order. For example, much of the information in the Early European exploration section was about proposals for colonisation which more logically belongs in the Plans for colonisation section.
• Changed the names of some of the subheadings to more accurately reflect their contents.

I think these sections of the article are still too long and include too much tangential information which could easily be cut or spun off into other articles. The article also reads like an essay (or even chapters of a full length book) rather than a concise narrative and summary of the state of the latest scholarship on the topic. I’d be interested to hear the views of other editors on this.Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:28, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Your edits to this section look good to me. This section particularly has suffered over the years with enthusiastic nationalistic narratives being dropped in. It was high time for a cleanup.Nickm57 (talk) 05:19, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Colonisation

Hello all I have revised and expanded the sections on the establishment of the various Australian colonies, convicts and colonial society, and exploration of the continent. I have put the material in a more logical order and added more subheadings which better summarise the content. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2021

Lieutenant James Cook charted the east coast of Australia for Great Britain. He returned to London with accounts *favouring* (favoring) *colonisation* (colonization) at Botany Bay (now in Sydney). 2A04:4540:6D1C:4200:D90C:8533:1168:E987 (talk) 13:56, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —Sirdog9002 (talk) 20:18, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

From autonomy to federation

Hello all

I have added information to this section and put the information in a more logical order. I have added sub-headings for clarity. I have also summarised some information to remove repetitions and excessive detail which is included in linked daughter articles. Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:58, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your work on this article.Nickm57 (talk) 07:36, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Establishment of the colony of New South Wales

@Camira: You don't seem to have an active talkpage so I have added this here. Please look at my compromise wording to see if you agree. My understanding of King's article is that the some people compared the Colony of NSW to the foundation of the Roman Empire. The point being that Rome was founded by criminals. The first great seal alludes to this: see convicts casting off their chains and being led into the bright new future. The idea of convicts founding an empire was widely ridiculed in Britain, and the short quote from Phillip indicates that he too dismissed the idea of criminals founding an empire. The full quote doesn't change this point.--Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:10, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Federation

Hello all

I have added information to this section and put the information in a more logical order. I have added sub-headings for clarity. I have also summarised some information to remove repetitions and excessive detail which is already included elsewhere in the article and in daughter articles. I have replaced inadequately sourced information with sourced information. Happy to discuss. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:38, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Use of Peter Gouldthorpe convict flash mob artwork

I suggest the illustration "A singular act of female rebellion in Van Diemen's land" be removed immediately. It appears to be a 2004 artwork by Tasmanian artist Peter Gouldthorpe, not an 1838 work by an unknown author, as originally claimed by the uploader to commons. I have nominated it for deletion. That possibly infringement of copyright aside, respected historian Lucy Frost has argued the event did not even occur. See [[1]]. While it’s true that another well respected historian – Claire Wright has suggested it may have happened, [[2]] there is enough controversy that it should not be used without fair and balanced discussion - which would not be appropriate here anyway. Nickm57 (talk) 01:37, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

I have just noticed, Michael Connor also provided a summary of the problem with this story in Quadrant back in 2010. [[3]] Nickm57 (talk) 02:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Establishment of further colonies

Hello all

I have reversed repeated edits to this section by Caltraser5. The reason why Queensland is discussed last in this section is simply because it was the last colony to be proclaimed. There is no good reason to change this or to delete the sourced sentences which discuss the background to the establishment of Queensland as a separate colony from New South Wales. I have previously raised this in my edit summaries and on the user's talkpage.

@Caltraser5: Hello Caltraser. Please discuss your concerns with this section here and seek consensus before you make any changes. Thank you. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:43, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

The use of founding of colonies in the subheading misled me to assume it was about the founding of settlements but according to Aemilius Adolphin, that it is about self government only. With that I have restored my prior edit, and removed the section on Moreton Bay Penal settlement which is irrelevant to the subheading, since it is only referencing self governing provinces, of which Queensland was not independent until 1859.--Caltraser5 (talk) 02:28, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

First World War

Hello all

I have significantly expanded this section, I have added sub-headings on the Home Front and the Paris Peace Conference for clarity. I have also summarised some information to remove detail which is already in daughter articles. I have replaced inadequately sourced information with sourced information. Happy to discuss.Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:24, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

That might be getting a bit long, especially as we have good-quality articles on various aspects of Australia's involvement in the war. The article as a whole probably has too much material on military and political history (I say as someone who mainly edits on both topics!). Nick-D (talk) 08:26, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. The addition is well written but I tend to agree with the other Nick. (I speak from experience. I spent a lot of time on this article a few years ago and found it very difficult to get the balance right). Cheers Nickm57 (talk) 12:20, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'll go back to it later and trim some of the detail. I think the section on the inter-war years also needs some trimming so I will have a go at paring them both back. --Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 22:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Story

I replaced the word "story" in the lead sentence with "history". I'm sure there's a better way to word the lead sentence, but I had to get "story" outta there. Masterhatch (talk) 14:41, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

History by historic filmmaterials

Please add to the article:

• Lisa Matthews (Director), Rose Hesp, Alec Morgan: Australia in Colour (2019), 8 films, each 45 Min. Colourised films of original black-and-white footage of Australia’s film archives. An Review by Luke Buckmaster: Hugo Weaving narrates a thrilling revitalisation of history. At The Guardian, 5 March 2019 --Fr23456 (talk) 20:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Why? Would you mind explaining how this would improve the article? Nickm57 (talk) 00:42, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The first film contains a very well illustrated „short history“ since 1860. It is usefull for all readers, not only the young ones.Fr23456 (talk) 18:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

I have placed a welcome with links to useful articles on the wikipedia project on your talk page. Please take some time to read these. Of special interest might be the guidelines around what constitutes a reliable source. This will give you an idea why there are no TV documentaries listed here - or in most other articles. Nickm57 (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Chronological order of settlements

The establishment of the colonial settlements in the article should reflect their historical chronological order, so Queensland should follow Tasmania, Western Australia next, Victoria, and finally South Australia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.63.186.170 (talk) 00:06, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

First World War: Emden

I just restarted on Wikipedia with a new account so I am not able to edit this article yet. Just FYI: The German battleship Emden mentioned and linked at the beginning of the chapter about the First World War was built in the early 1920s and therefore cannot be the "Emden" the article wants to refer to. 172.58.109.207 (talk) 09:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I've fixed the link, thankyou.Nickm57 (talk) 10:07, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Indigenous prehistory

Hello all

I have summarised the content and moved some excessive detail to the article Prehistory of Australia. I have rationalised the citations concentrating on scholarly works by experts in the field. The result is a significant reduction in word count which is consistent with the need to reduce the length of the article which is excessive by the standard outlined in policy.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Social development 1960s to present

Hello all

I have summarised the content and moved some excessive detail to the article History of Indigenous Australians. The result is a significant reduction in word count which is consistent with the need to reduce the length of the article which is excessive by the standard outlined in policy.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:54, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

21st century politics

Hello all

I have trimmed the sections on 21st century Australian governments of excessive detail and flabby wording in accordance with the need to reduce the size of the article within the limits recommended by policy. The history of these governments are already covered in detail in the main articles on each government. There is also an issue of lack of balance in the space devoted to the 21st century compared with the previous two centuries of Australin history.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 11:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Historiography split

Hello all

I have summarised the historiography section and split the rest to a new article Historiography of Australia. This should help the quest to get this article down to a size consistent with the recommendations in policy.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 06:01, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Early European exploration and colonisation

Hello all

I have summarised the content and moved some excessive detail to the main articles on European exploration of Australia and History of Australia (1788-1850). This is consistent with the need to reduce the article size in accordance with relevant policy.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 03:39, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

One reason the theory of Portuguese discovery was included here - despite the fact it is just a theory - is the irregular but persistent media reports that pop up - usually announcing some find or new book is about to "rewrite Australian History". Things have been quiet recently it's true. I have no problem not including it but I wouldn't be surprised if it's added in again soon by a helpful soul. See also Portuguese Wikipedia's entry. Nickm57 (talk) 10:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC)