Talk:His Master's Voice (British record label)

Discography link

The Global Dog Productions link to the HMV singles discography is a great tool to fill gaps in the HMV POP series artists' list. Steelbeard1 (talk) 19:57, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

I propose merging His Master's Voice (British record label) into Gramophone Company. Yesterday, I renamed List of HMV POP artists to His Master's Voice (British record label), under the belief that His Master's Voice became its own record label under the production of its HMV POP series in 1952, however on closer inspection, these recordings still have "The Gramophone Company" on as its registered incorporated entity, meaning His Master's Voice and HMV were just the mascots for The Gramophone Company.

Victor Talking Machine Company, later RCA Victor also used the "His Master's Voice" name and artwork on, however there is no dispute that these were Victor Talking Machine Company or RCA Victor releases.

I believe a merge would not cause any article-size or weighting problems.Icaldonta (talk) 15:35, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Completely unnecessary. The proposer simply does not understand the nature of the term "HMV", which was the name of the label owned by the holding company. I have on my desk in front of me a catalogue published by the Gramophone Company during the First World War, which opens "This catalogue of His Master's Voice Records is arranged under the following headings ..." To say that Patti or Artur Nikisch recorded for The Gramophone Company makes about as much sense as saying today that the Decca artists Sheku Kanneh-Mason and Benjamin Grosvenor or the DG artists Yannick Nézet-Séguin and Seong-Jin Cho record for the Universal Music Group – legally accurate, I imagine, but of no use whatever to the record-buying public or to our readers. Tim riley talk 16:33, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your input.

The challenge here lies in the distinction between the examples provided—Decca and Deutsche Grammophon. Both remain separately incorporated to this day, as Decca Music Group Limited and Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft mbH, respectively.

Despite their incorporation, these companies currently operate under the Universal umbrella.

My contention, however, is that His Master's Voice was never separately incorporated like the above examples. Instead, it was not an independent entity apart from its association with Gramophone Company. His Master's Voice was only later associated with a retail chain, which was a separate endeavor.

While Victor Talking Machine Company, RCA Victor, and RCA Records all utilized the His Master's Voice trademark, there is no dispute regarding its use as a separate label by these entities. The distinction remains that His Master's Voice itself was not an independently incorporated entity to Gramophone Company. Icaldonta (talk) 16:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

... "these recordings still have 'The Gramophone Company' on as its registered incorporated entity, meaning His Master's Voice and HMV were just the mascots for The Gramophone Company." But that's just how record labels work, isn't it? For example Bluebird Records releases say "Bluebird" in big letters at the top, and "RCA" in smaller letters at the bottom. But you wouldn't say that "Bluebird" is a "mascot", you'd say it's one of RCA's labels. And you wouldn't (I hope) suggest merging Bluebird Records into RCA Victor. As far as I know Bluebird was never a separate corporate entity. (In other words totally agree with Tim riley) GA-RT-22 (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sold. Will convert His Master's Voice (British record label) to reflect the Gramophone Company's acquisition of the mark and redirect all His Master's Voice references there.

I am happy to close this debate, unless anyone else disagrees. Icaldonta (talk) 17:33, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

CLOSED Icaldonta (talk) 18:42, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for undoing the edits where you changed the label.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 22:34, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

HMV in the 1950s and 1960s

"From 1952 to 1967, it became a pop music sub-label, also signing lots of American talent for British distribution, such as Elvis Presley. From 1967 to 1973, it reverted to being a classical music sub-label again" – this is complete rubbish. HMV was a classical label throughout the 1950s and 60s. Classical recordings on HMV included among many others Fischer/Philharmonia/Furtwängler in the Emperor Concerto (HMV ALP 1051, 1953), Menuhin/Philharmonia/Furtwängler in Beethoven's Violin Concerto (HMV ALP 1100, 1953), Furtwängler conducting Fidelio (ALP 1130–2, 1954), Beecham conducting Carmen (HMV ASD, 1960) and the Symphonie Fantastique (HMV ALP 1633, 1958), Boult conducting In the South (HMV ALP 1359, 1956) and the Enigma Variations (HMV ALP 1153, 1954) and Horowitz playing Chopin (HMV ALP 1069, 1957). I could go on. Toscanini's NBC Symphony Orchestra recordings were released in the UK on the HMV label. This ludicrously incorrect section of the article needs to be completely revised to give the actual facts. Tim riley talk 12:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The source says that HMV was "founded as a classical label" and that in 1967 EMI was "seeking to build HMV as a classical label". I suspect the truth is that from 1952 to 1967 HMV issued both classical and popular music, which doesn't mean it "became a pop music sub-label". I wouldn't call it complete rubbish, but I would say it should be revised. GA-RT-22 (talk) 14:34, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

We can agree to differ about the quantity of scorn to be poured on the present text, but there is also the matter of MOS:LEAD: the current text has stuff in the lead that isn't in the main text where it ought to be (or ought to be once corrected, I should say). And as one who started buying HMV records in the mid-1960s I can truly add that I have never till now seen the Nipper logo in crumpled white on black, as in the info-box here. The logo I have known for the last sixty years looks like this. Tim riley talk 14:59, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm taking a stab at it, please join in. We still need a source for 1952 as the entry year for pop music. GA-RT-22 (talk) 16:10, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Thank you GA-RT-22. I'll look in over the next day or so. I can't help with the pop side but am pretty well equipped for classical. Tim riley talk 18:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]