Talk:Hiking equipment

Medical kit

A separate section specifying the contents of the medical kit might be a good idea, specifically for hiking (as opposed to first aid kit). DirkvdM 12:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

The "Basic equipment" section is a mess. It fails to differentiate:

Between equipment that you only need for backpacking (sleeping bag, tinder) and essential day-hiking gear (boots, sunscreen);
Between things that you need under almost any conditions (socks, clothes) and those that may or may not be needed (insect repellent, tinder);
Between sensible equipment (map, compass) and at least one ridiculous item (what would possess you to bring candles on a hike?).

The "Worth considering" section is even worse. In my own opinion, half of those things aren't remotely worth carrying on one's back. Plus, the whole article reads like a manual and not like an encyclopedia. --Smack (talk) 03:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Since we already have a category that includes most of this equipment, I'm not sure that this article even serves a purpose. -Will Beback 06:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I only wrote this as a starter for a more complete list (the Wiki way, afaik). First some defensive remarks. :) category:hiking equipment contains only a fraction of what is in this list and I don't see why there shouldn't be an article on this. Candles are extremely handy for some types of hiking, such as staying overnight in basic huts. I'd say the list should be expanded even further. Most things will not be needed for most trips, but all items are useful for some trips. I agree that it needs some more ordening, but like I said, it's only a start and it's sort of like a disambiguation page in that the structure appears as the list grows, so I wanted to keep the ordering to a minimum at this stage. I must admit that I wasn't sure about the explanations. On the one hand it might make more sense to put those in the hiking article, but on the other hand some explanation on why certain types of things should be brought (one thick sweater or several thin ones) makes a lot of sense here. Also, there is some confusion about the terms 'hiking' and 'backpacking' due to regional differences. I believe the most widely used catch-all terms is 'hiking' (see the intro to hiking). We should get this straightened out and standardised in all relevant articles. One last note about tinder - that is something one should always carry because it can be a life saver when things go wrong (even on a simple dayhike) and weighs next to nothing. See ten essentials and Mini survival kits. DirkvdM 19:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Today I reread the article and reviewed discussion. The candle thing caught my eye, because I used to carry an extra candle for the one in the miniature lantern in my hiking pack. Currently, I don't use it, but still own it. I think the article has a good purpose, although utilizing other related Wiki articles my be able to trim-down some sections for this page. For example, this page could suggest to carry "portable" essentials of an emergency kit, but link to an article listing those, rather than repeating them all. I don't think you wrote it, but some of the suggested stuff on this page, like a towel, reminded me more of camping equipment. It may be practical to reduce one section, with a sentence that suggests "hikers might consider packing some items used for camping" - and link to a Wiki page for camping. All-in-all though, I think this section is useful. Mdvaden 17:02, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You make several points, so I'll reply to them separately:

It's just a start: Point taken. I hadn't noticed that the article was scarcely a week old. However, I'd say that if you're going to write something half-baked like this, you should do it in temporary space, such as a user subpage.
The category is weak: I think we should fix the category before we make a parallel list. Once we're done with the category, we can decide whether or not we actually need the list. (In other words, fix things that are broken before introducing new things.)
What to do about the explanations: I don't know, either. This list is very confusing without them (you see, it confused me), but proper explanations would exceed the usual scope of a list.

--Smack (talk) 05:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the article should be tagged as "under construction" and a stub. Would this address your confusion, Smack?

The article exists—I think—because the most relevant articles (Ten essentials and Scout Outdoor Essentials) have been straining with extra useful/important items which don't belong in those articles, strictly speaking.

It's on my todo list to organize this article, perhaps as a table like this:

Item	Primary use	Other uses
Flashlight	night time use	looking inside things, signaling, finding things in the pack
etc.

— EncMstr 06:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

An "under construction" tag would address one of my complaints, but not all of them. I'm not convinced that we actually need this article. I don't really like your proposed table, either. 'Hiking' encompasses everything from one-hour strolls to month-long expeditions. In that range, you have many distinct sets of gear requirements. In order to achieve balanced treatment, we would need to discuss each of those different options. There just isn't room to do this in a table, list or anything of the sort. --Smack (talk) 07:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In fields like this it's hard to avoid advising or instructing when all we are supposed to do is describe. -Will Beback 09:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I indeed started this because ten essentials was going beyond that specific list. But maybe starting this as a list was not the right approach because of the necessary explanations. Maybe it should take on the form of proze (if that is the right word), possibly followed by an overview (which could also be used as a 'checklist'), possibly in the form of a table showing for which types of hikes each item would make sense. What types of hikes are there anyway? (This is also useful for the organisation of all hiking-related articles.) First of all there is the distinction between day-hikes and thru-hikes, although, like I said, one should be prepared for overnighting even on a simple day-hike. Also, how long is a day-hike? More or less than 6 hours makes quite a difference (ie for food). And what to bring on a thru-hike also depends on the facilities (any huts and if so, do they contain stoves or even electricity?). A more important distinction might be between types of environement. Hot or cold (although some environments like mountains and deserts have both), open or bush, trails or roughing it, possibility of river crossings, ... Damn, this is also getting to be to complicated. Maybe that is why I don't recall having seen any such lists. What you usually see is either proze or an overly complete list with the note one should not try to take everything on that list. Which brings me to another point - I'm really doing original research now, although it is at least in part based on reading many books, with the added advantage of extensive experience. Basically, when I pack for a hike I try to be prepared for any circumstances. The only major consideration is whether to take a tent (and mat) and what type of sleeping bag. For the rest I sometimes leave things out because I really won't need them on that trip. Googling "hiking equipment checklist -site:.com" gave me some sites that categorise the equipment, but the only useful categorisations seemed to be between summer and winter (ie temperature), day- or thru-hikes, categories of equipment and more and less essential stuff (what I did). I'll have to look through those sites in more detail for tips for the list. One tip I already got from a few of these was what not to bring: cellphones and deodorant (attracts bugs). Also worth mentioning. DirkvdM 19:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Prose is good, but a thorough discussion of hiking equipment will tend to encroach on the broader topic of hiking itself. I think that a focused discussion of equipment can be written, but it will require some care. Then there's the question of sources. The citation police are starting to crack down on the proliferation of unsourced articles, which is particularly acute in hiking, and I have to admit that they're right. --Smack (talk) 06:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned my sources under 'sources'. And they really are. All the items in the list are from those books (I think - I checked some other books as well, like The SAS survival handbook). But I didn't work from memory or something, if that's what you mean. DirkvdM 12:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Condom

I've removed the suggestion to carry a liter of water in a condom, because it seems ridiculous. However, if you can back it up, feel free to put it back in. --Smack (talk) 04:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had to laugh too when I first heard about a condom being useful to carry water, but I've heard it more than once. It's very small and light and of course also has the intended purpose, which these days can also be a life saver. DirkvdM 12:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This website claims that condoms can be inflated with air to 25 liters. That's six and a half one-gallon milk jugs. I'm very impressed with their elasticity. However, that leaves two questions.

How well can a condom withstand the weight of a liter of water?
Will it burst if you try to set it down on twigs, pine needles or the like?

--Smack (talk) 18:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well there's only one thing for it, isn't there? Do try this at home (aka OR). :) Funny I never tried this before. I just filled a condom (Chess, a cheap brand) with about three liters of water and it held. I didn't dare pick it up solely with the 'end' (what should I cal that?), for fear of breaking it, and it's night now, so I'll do more outdoor experimenting tomorrow. But I could pick it up while supporting the bottom. A bit wobbly, but no problem. Of course condoms have to be of quite good quality, for their orginal purpose, so I'm not surprised. I haven't tried drinking the water yet, though. Shoud be ok though, because the spermicide is on the outside only. And I don't know where I might get condoms without spermicide. I'll be visiting my favourite outdoor store, Demmenie, one of these days, and then I'll ask. Or maybe at the condomerie (the world's first specialised condom shop [1] - it's great to live in Amsterdam :) ). This much handling causes sticky hands, though. And hard to wash off too. Normally I only handle condoms lightly and with my finger tips. But more experimental info tomorrow. DirkvdM 19:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tomorrow has come and here are the results: I first filled a condom with 3 litres of water (measured it this time) and carried it outside where I set it down on various (not too) rough surfaces, the worst of which a metal floor, on which I set it down on a slightly rusty screwhead. And it held. Mind you, I didn't move it, just set it down carefully. Then I added another 2 litres, for a total of 5. It became rather awkward to handle (very wobbly). When I sat that down on the same screwhead, it burst. But that's way too much water anyway. A few litres will work just fine. Though I'd advise to prepare a smooth spot to set it down.

A problem is the beginning of the filling - the condom has to stretch first. Btw, I had used yesterday's comdom first, and when I started filling that, it tore at the rim, where I placed the mouth of the plastic bottle. Maybe the bottle had a sharp edge. After that, it became even more difficult to start filling it, so I threw away that condom and restarted with a new one.

Damn, I forgot to taste the water and I'm not going to get my hands all sticky again. ~~But of course there is no lubricant or paste or such on the inside, because one doesn't want the condom to slip off in normal use. So that should be ok.~~ Remains the problem of the sticky hands. DirkvdM 11:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, that was silly. Of course any lubricant on the outside will also be on the inside because of the way condoms are rolled up. DirkvdM 07:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Er, thanks for all that research. I'm not sure I understand the exact use we are envisioning for this condom. Are we positing that the hiker has lost his own water vessels, has access to water, and needs to transport the water somewhere? -Will Beback · † · 21:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My pleasure. I love experimenting with things, so thanks for the suggestion. :) The condom can be seen as an emergency backup. I have indeed once lost a water container, although luckily I had two (as usual). Given the combination of importance of water and the size and weight of a condom, plus the possibility of needing for its intended purpose makes it a useful item. I mentioned those weight and size criteria in the intro and didn't want to repeat them for every item where applicable. DirkvdM 10:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent work. I'm thoroughly convinced, and a little surprised. Now it's just too bad that we can't publish original research. --Smack (talk) 03:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If DirkvdM could get his research published then we could use it. -Will Beback · † · 04:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LOL. I thought about that before. Publishing is easy these days. All I'd need to do is put on a website. Alas it also has to be a reputable source. :) DirkvdM 18:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

An outdoors magazine might be interested. It's sort of a fun topic. -Will Beback · † · 19:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Intro - what is hiking?

The intro I originally wrote has been changed completely based on a difference in terminology. I define 'hiking' as going on an outdoors walking trip that goes beyond a simple day trip (although that distinction is a bit blurry) and 'backpacking' as traveling with a backpack (staying at places fittingly called backpackers').
For easy comparison, here's my original intro:

Hiking equipment is what one needs to take along to go on an outdoors hiking trip. This list does not cover general travel equipment, such as passport, contact lenses, travel books or contraceptives (although those can be needed according to personal and local circumstances). What one should bring along depends very much on the type of hike, so one should make a selection of the following, based on that. Is it a daytrip or an overnight trip, what facilities can one expect, are there rivers and is the water potable, what are the expected weather conditions (check the latest weather report) and how quickly can conditions change (especially important in mountainous regions)?

Even for a day trip it makes sense to pack at least rudimentary solutions for staying the night, in case of emergencies. Also always let someone know where you are going and for how long, especially when hiking alone.

And here's the new one:

Hiking equipment is gear or equipment that one takes along on an outdoors hiking trip. While hiking is considered different than backpacking (overnight camping), the equipment is of necessity of a shorter term more practical nature for such a walk. However even for a day trip it is prudent to pack at least rudimentary solutions for eventualities that may arise including being forced to stay the night, getting lost, or accidents.

This intro considers hiking to be a lightweight version of what I mean. Now I don't mean to go into a discussion about this terminology. But the list is meant for what I call hiking, which I believe in the US is called backpacking. In other words, it's more general than this new intro suggests. Maybe a solution could be to avoid the issue by renaming the article. But what should it become then? The Kiwi term tramping equipment would cause even more confusion. Backpacking equipment is also still available, but most people outside the US will misinterpret that too. Outdoors equipment doesn't solve it either because that doesn't necessarily involve hiking. Any other suggestions? DirkvdM (talk) 18:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, the backpackers link redirects to the US interpretation and hostel also is very US-biased. I've had several years of backpacking experience (in my terminology) and based on that experience the terminology used in Wikipedia doesn't coincide with what most people mean by the words. To my horror, when looking for an article on backpackers, I noticed that the hostel article mentions them just in the passing and even suggests that they originated in the US. In reality, they originated in Australasia and have there and pretty much the rest of the world (except the US) pushed youth hostels to the brink of extinction. This really needs to be resolved, although that will probably involve lots of bickering over what different terms really mean. But anyway, this is not the place for that. I just mention it to give an idea of 'where I come from', so to say. DirkvdM (talk) 18:02, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A few more items

Some things I heard in an SAS survival thing on the BBC.

The condom for carrying water could be put in a sock to make it stronger. However, I assume it will hold less water then. See also discussion above.
Alcohol whipes can be used as kindling or to clean wounds
Tampons (torn open) can be used as kindling
Glycerine mixed with potassium permanganate will cause a violent reaction which could be used to start a fire, albeit only in emergencies (says an SAS man!). Potassium permanganate can also be used to purify water. Tastes horrble but keeps you alive. Alas, in neither case were the quantities mentioned.

Two reasons I don't put them in the article yet are that I don't have much time now and that I'm not sure where they should go. There seems to be no separate article on survival gear, what a lot of the info I put in this article is about. So that needs to be dealt with first. DirkvdM (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Banner: This article has multiple issues

Can this now be removed? Rwood128 (talk) 13:57, 16 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Copy edit

As part of my rewrite, I've requested the copy editor's guild review it. Alrich44 (talk) 17:50, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

While I recognize that it is somewhat difficult to avoid offering advice in an article like this, there are serious problems with the recent edit and I have restored the banner re instructions, advice, or how-to content. Most of the 'Knowledge' section, to take just one example, should be deleted: What is required are the basic facts of how to signal to a plane or using a whistle. Rwood128 (talk) 12:18, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a few minor edits and hope that this is helpful. Rwood128 (talk) 13:40, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Rwood128, Baffle gab1978 from the copy-editor's guild will also be removing non-encyclopedic sections. This will save some editing. Alrich44 (talk) 16:58, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's great help. Rwood128 (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text

Knowledge

Knowledge with a positive mental attitude is the most important item to have according to some experts.^[1] One critical part of knowledge is understanding how the brain works to avoid being distracted while doing important tasks or making decisions based on feelings versus logic, such as while tying off a rope before belaying, or heading across the wrong kind of slope in avalanche conditions because it looks fun.^[2]

It is recommended that hikers and others engaged in similar outdoor activities know the recognized mountain distress signals. These are based on groups of three, or six in the UK and the European Alps. A distress signal can be 3 fires or piles of rocks in a triangle, three blasts on a whistle, three shots from a firearm, or three flashes of a light, in succession followed by a one-minute pause and repeated until a response is received. Three blasts or flashes is the appropriate response.In the Alps, the recommended way to signal distress is the Alpine distress signal: give six signals within a minute, then pause for a minute, repeating this until rescue arrives. A signal may be anything visual (waving clothes or lights, use of a signal mirror) or audible (shouts, whistles, etc.). The rescuers acknowledge with three signals per minute.

Knowing all the uses for each piece of equipment is like adding tools without adding weight. Having one piece of equipment that can replace two or more others can save weight.

Knowing what to take while hiking can be approached from two sides that work together. Nature has been supplying people with water, food, and equipment for thousands of years, so learning primitive skills is useful for emergencies and when civilized supplies run out.^[1] The basic formula of trading time and energy for something of value applies in both the natural and civilized worlds. When hikers have time, availability, and affordability, they can choose what items to take with them when they decide to go for a hike.^[3]

Then there is transiting from knowing to doing. Practicing with new tools and abilities in a safe location before they are needed is reasonable. Not everything can be done on the first try. So, walking into a potential survival situation with new tools and only head-knowledge is an inherently more risky scenario.^[4]

Baffle gab1978, Have you removed this entirely because you believe knowledge is not something you should take with you? Have you watched Tom Brown Jr's Wilderness part 1 on YouTube? What about some recommended field books as a way to indicate which knowledge is beneficial, or should this just go in the Hiking article? How else and where else can this be included? Alrich44 (talk) 19:48, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From "Planning and checklists"

A person can drown when swept into deep water with a heavy pack and boots, suffer from hypothermia from falling into cold water, or from hyperthermia by overheating in a few hours, dehydration in a few days, or starvation in a few weeks. There may not be enough oxygen if buried in deep snow (avalanche), or sealed in a cave.

References

^ ^a ^b Brown, Tom (April 15, 1987). Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival. Berkley Trade. ISBN 978-0425105726.
^ Gonzales, Laurence (2004). Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why. W. W. Norton & Company. ISBN 978-0393326154.
^ Canterbury, Dave. Survivability for the Common Man, The Pathfinder System. Amazon Digital Services, Inc. ASIN B007JY1Q6M.
^ "Chasing the Reaper". USRSOG.org. 2007. Retrieved August 7, 2014.

Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 13:04, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hiking locations

Hiking organizations

Medical

Shelter

Water

Fire

Food

Textile

Other

Hiking and other related activities

Hiking and other related activities that may use hiking equipment.

Images removed from "Some possible hazards" section

{|style="margin: 0 auto;" | [[File:Blitze IMGP6376 wp.jpg|thumb|right|170px|Lightning during a [[thunderstorm]]]] | [[Image:whitewater.jpg|thumb|220px|right|175px|Whitewater on the river Guil, [[French Alps]]]] | [[File:Yosemite El Capitan.jpg|thumb|right|190px|El Capitan from [[Yosemite Valley]], California]] | [[File:Wildfire in California.jpg|thumb|right|210px|upright=2|A [[Wildfires in California|Wildfire in California]]]] |} Baffle gab1978 (talk) 13:03, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additional equipment

Hi Baffle gab1978, I've restored the Additional Equipment section. You've cited this section as not supported by references. Yet, the one specific one you mentioned did have a reference, the umbrella. In my undo comment, I noted that I'm willing to provide a reference for each one if this is what it takes to keep them. If you read the references, I believe you will find them. Thanks, Alrich44 (talk) 21:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Wiki Education assignment: Technical and Professional Writing

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2024 and 7 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MountainsCalling (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Eaturvegeez (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction of New Edits

Hi all, I am working on this page and plan to edit for organization, grammar, and other aspects. This article contains great information regarding what one should bring on a hike, but there are some instances when it mimics a user guide. The present information can be reorganized to look less like a checklist. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not Looking forward to working together on this. MountainsCalling (talk) 17:57, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Follow Up on New Edits

This article was flagged for containing “instructions, advice, or how-to content,” which violated WP: NOT. Along these same lines, it also violated WP: NPOV because it presented the checklists as objectives instead of one of many ways an individual could select equipment for a hiking trip. Furthermore, based on WP: V, the article needed citations in multiple places to appear more reputable. Lack of citations, especially with the nature of the subject matter, implied original research (i.e., The original writers likely were hikers themselves and this is what he/she brought on their hiking trips that may have worked for them), which violated WP: NOR. Different parts of the article were cut based on WP: Manual of Style/Clarity, in an effort to maintain relatability to topic and promote concision (readers come to the article to learn about equipment, not external topics). Portions were also cut based on WP: Notability. For example, there was a portion about a British army bergen backpack being 120 liters; that is interesting, but not notable in the general topic of hiking equipment. Much of the information contained in the original article was used in the final draft, but it was reframed to try to exclude language that suggested it to be a how-to guide. However, I did delete large portions (although I was wary to do so at first) because the primary topic (equipment) was getting lost in nuance. Lastly, portions of the article were reorganized based on subject (e.g., clothing was mentioned towards the beginning of the article then mentioned again in another section).

The following is a brief edit summary (not comprehensive):

Called for citation for opening sentence; what is provided is common information, but as a proxy for the reader, what is this based on? Where did this definition come from?
Removed “Hiking is usually divided into…” because it does not relate specifically to equipment; could be better housed in a parent article that contains information about hiking as an exclusive concept (See WP: Relevance)
Combined lead sentence with second paragraph within initial lead (the separation was unnecessary since the second paragraph expands on the former sentence)
Removed “the” before “environment” (article already provided)
Removed “Additional factors that impact…” (Weight and preparedness of whom? Preparedness based on what? See WP: Manual of Style/Clarity)
Removed comment about weight that was at the end of the now first paragraph (see WP: Relevance)
Removed comment about “Leave No Trace” (see WP: Relevance)
Called for citation regarding the government regulations as a consideration for hiking equipment selection (there was a citation, but the relevance of the previous one was unclear; citation needed for examples of government regulations impacting equipment selection specifically)
Removed “and Checklist” from second subtitle; the article has been flagged for containing “how-to information” and “Checklist” is terminology that implies how to do something (removed throughout the article)
Made various surface edits (e.g., changing word order in sentences to align with WP: Manual of Style/Clarity)
Removed “Hikers may take with them equipment ranging from a stout knife to ultralight backpacking (10–25 pounds), to the heaviest, most durable gear a hiker can carry. Checklists help to minimize the chance of forgetting something important. ” (See WP: NOT; a case cannot be made to make the article into a guidebook because that is not what Wikipedia is)
Revised photo captions to increase specificity and relevance to the topic
Revised lists to increase specificity and relevance to the topic
Revised lists to read as considerations and information on equipment available instead of an objective guideline to follow
Removed list of medications under “Protection from Animals” (the medications listed were treatments, not initial protections; needs to go somewhere else to be included)
Changed mentions of “lists” to “examples” or researched, proven facts (see WP: NOT; most of the same information can be presented as options instead of guidelines)
In planning section, changed contents of parentheticals to be separated by commas instead of & and / (makes listing format consistent instead of varied)
Removed the measurements/capacities of certain equipment (see WP: Relevance)
Stylistic decision made to use the Oxford comma (some portions of the article were using it and others were not)
Cut information that was not notable based on WP: Notability (e.g., readers likely don’t need to know every fabric that exists)
Removed peacock terms (see WP: Manual of Style/Clarity)
The shoe portion needs more information (Specialized in what?)
Insert citations for Overnight Shelter portion
Removed and/or adjusted pictures to to the information being discussed

MountainsCalling (talk) 03:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[TomsFieldGuide-1] Brown, Tom (April 15, 1987). Tom Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival. Berkley Trade. ISBN 978-0425105726.

[DeepSurvival-2] Gonzales, Laurence (2004). Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why. W. W. Norton & Company. ISBN 978-0393326154.

[DaveCommonMan-3] Canterbury, Dave. Survivability for the Common Man, The Pathfinder System. Amazon Digital Services, Inc. ASIN B007JY1Q6M.

[RSOGReaper-4] "Chasing the Reaper". USRSOG.org. 2007. Retrieved August 7, 2014.

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