Talk:Hermética

Completed Edits

I have completed copy-editing this article. Feedback is welcome on my talk page. Leo A. Mercer (talk) 17:27, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Historical Context

The article lacks stronger references to the historical context. The album "Victimas del vaciamiento" was released in 1994, after four years of government of president Carlos Saul Menem, and has direct references to the social consequences of his policies. The title of the album could be translated as Victims of the "emptying" and refers to the cuts in health, education and social services, the rising of the unemployment (a consequence of the de-industrialization and the privatization of several state-owned companies) and the reduction of the power of the unions. For example, the song Hospitalarias realidades is a ironic reference to the "non-hospitality" a poor person has to suffer when he has to ask for attention in a public hospital; the song "Olvídalo y volverá por más" refers to the (broken) promises made by Carlos Menem during his political campaign in 1989 (broken when he assumed the presidency and turned 180 degrees to a neoliberal orientation) and the corruption of his administration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.135.39.134 (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Actually, the CD "Víctimas del vaciamiento" is named after a song with that name, included in the first LP, released in 1989. "Olvídalo y volverá por más" does not reference the president, if you check the lyrics you'll notice that the president (a generic one) is mentioned, but not as the main character described. In any case, the song does not reference anyone by name. In fact, except for a few words here and there, the lyrics always talk about generic ideas. "Hospitalarias realidades" for instance, only talks about the lack of medical resources in public hospitals, but does not blame it to anyone's administration. It is a problem that was there years before Menem, and continued that way and worse during Kirchnerism; written in such generic terms the song does not get outdated. Cambalachero (talk) 17:55, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hermética/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Вик Ретлхед (talk · contribs) 21:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Hey there, I'll be reviewing this article. Enjoy thrash metal bands a lot, so I'll try to provide the best review I can.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 21:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Lead

• all red links should be de-linked
• mention from which city is Hermetica in the opening sentence
• second sentence should begin: "Their first line-up was consisted of ..."
• you can avoid using brackets in the lead by saying vocalist Claudio O'Connor, guitarist Antonio Romano, etc.
• can you expand the intro a bit so it can summarize the majority of their career?
• You need to say "Throughout their career, they played with several Argentine bands ..."
• aren't Motorhead and Black Sabbath from England?
• "disbanded" instead of "broke up"
• right before a big concert? Can you be more precise? Do you mean before they started a tour, because this is implying that they broke up minutes before the concert started.
• Ricardo Iorio, who had been the vocalist of some songs,→This suggest that Iorio performed on a few songs. Per "Members" section, he performed on all albums.

Style and lyrics

• The first two albums had unfocused lyrics→"Their first two albums explored variety of topics" and name on which topics they elaborated
• The music style of Hermética was outdated at the time→you mean something like old-fashioned or what?
• the public of Hermética was largely composed of poor people→maybe "Hermética's music was more appealing to poor people"

Members

• link the band-members and their instruments
• small letters for instruments
• their tenure at the band could be presented like on other band articles (see Megadeth members for example)

Discography

• unlink the compilation since it doesn't have an article of its own
• lose the hyphens

 Done, except for the red links. According to Wikipedia:Red link, red links are not a problem when they are provided in an appropiate context and link to articles that would meet the inclusion criteria, such as notability. Iorio has been the vocalist of just some songs and is listed as a permanent member because (as explained in "style"), he was a permanent member as a bassist. In some specific songs he's both the bassist and the singer, in most ones the singer is O'Connor. I did not not link the instruments because none of the magazines I have checked have ever mentioned with specific bass or guitar did they use (none of the articles on the "big four" of thrash metal do that, anyway). When the magazine said that Hermética's style was outdated at the time (or old-fashioned), in the year 1994, it meant that the most popular trend of thrash metal was the style of Pantera. Cambalachero (talk) 16:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Great job for now. I'll be doing some corrections on the prose, and eventually come back with additional notes. On a first look, this looks like a strong candidate for GA.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 19:05, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Additional notes

• Can you exclude "The only exception is "No Class", a cover of Motörhead included in Intérpretes"? This borders triviality and is more appropriate in the album article.
• "Iorio stated that his lyrics were influenced by 1940s Argentine tango." I believe it's more correct to write "Iorio stated that some of his lyrics were inspired by 1940s Argentine tango". Also, can you move this sentence after the one containing "personal perspective".
• Other than this, this section passes the criteria.
• Another note would be to separate the history into sub-sections. I've noticed that other band articles use the names of the albums as titles for the headings.
• Apart from the "Disbandment" sub-heading, which I took care of, the prose needs to be re-worded in order to meet the criteria (1a→clear and concise text).
• "They made a new cover version of a folk song, "De los pagos del tiempo", also by Larralde." "new" is redundant and who is Larralde?

Hey Cambalachero, are we still doing this? It would be pity to fail the article after so much effort.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 01:31, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Done. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy those days, but now I'm ready to continue working in this page. As the song says, "But now I'm safe in the eye of the tornado. I can't replace the lies, that let a 1000 days go. No more living trapped inside, In her way I'll surely die, in the eye of the tornado, blow me away". Cambalachero (talk) 22:31, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Ha, thanks buddy. I've been working awhile to get those Megadeth albums and the main article to GA level at least. Anyway, can you take another at the prose in "History"? I've noted some minor mistakes such as the small starting letter for Patagonia (took care of that). My word is, the first two sections of this part surely contain some similar mistakes and would be nice if you can go through them again.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 19:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Closing note: I've reviewed the entire article, and have to say it is a decent work. The images are appropriate, the listed sources are reliable, but the prose is definitely not on a GA level. Today I've noticed many mistakes over the wording and some grammatical errors, some of which I've managed to fix. However, not every sentence is the "History" section is fully understandable, not to mention there might have been some other mistakes I've overlooked. Generally speaking, the only criteria that's not fulfilled is the first one, which really hurts the nomination. I know it's difficult for non-English speaker to contribute on such a level, but with some additional work over the wording, the article will most likely pass the next nomination. But for now, it conflicts the first criteria and I have to fail it.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 19:59, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hermética/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Retrohead (talk · contribs) 21:43, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Since the last review in January, the article underwent a copyediting treatment, so I'll give it another go. Felt I had unfinished business here.--Retrohead (talk) 21:43, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Notes

• Can you check the external links in the GA toolbox on this page? One link changes direction, which means a the url needs to be refreshed.
• The references seem fine, though they are mostly Spanish. My only concern is the status of rock.com.ar (the first of the 'External links'). Does the site have editorial oversight or a staff perhaps?
• I've noticed some inconsistency with the reference formatting. There are empty fields such as subject-link, interviewer, call sign, city, etc. which need to be eliminated if not filled in the meantime.
• Can you write the year when Scotto left the band in the lead?
• The dashes should be replaced with commas in the history section.
• An information why Hermetica refused to play with Metallica would be nice.
• Is it an universal opinion that their music was old fashioned?

Done. I'm not sure about the background of Rock.com.ar (I didn't gave it much thought because I was not using it as a reference anyway), so I removed it. As you may suspect, a band does not get to play with Metallica for free (or with any major international band, for that matter). The terms and conditions for doing so would be exacting; but most bands would sign anyway: who cares if they can only play for 20 minutes with bad sound quality, if you can be in Metallica's concert? Well, Hermética cares, and so refused to do it (Iorio in his next band would similarily reject other concerts that middle-sized bands would dream about; but that's beyond the scope of this article). As for being old-fashioned, I would suspect that yes, it is an universal opinion, I have read most Argentine metal magazines of the time and never seen anyone saying that Hermética was trendy. In fact, within the urban tribe of Argentine heavy metal fans, being "trendy" is more an insult than a compliment, so I wouldn't really expect to find anyone contesting Rodríguez' review and saying "Hey, Hermética IS trendy!". Iorio himself had repeatedly displayed in interviews his contempt over the current music trends of the time being, from the 1980s to modern day. Cambalachero (talk) 16:29, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the detailed explanation and fulfilling the notes. I'm happy to pass the article. Congratulations.--Retrohead (talk) 19:28, 8 September 2014 (UTC)