Talk:Heritage turkey

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I edited this page at little, today. Here's a note I sent to the author:

"Hi Steve. I removed one tiny section from the Heritage Turkey sections today, and [have made] a few more small edits.

I'm founder and president of the Heritage Turkey Foundation and have been a part of this movement since its beginning. If you'd like to follow up on any of this, feel free to call or write me. You can find us at HeritageTurkeyFoundation.org. We're non-profit and have no financial interest whatever in this new field.

One very good thing about it has been that many small family farms have found it a lifesaving business area, as we hoped they would. See the listings at LocalHarvest.org.

The edit I made is to remove the comment implying that the term "heirloom turkey" is synonymous with Heritage Turkey. This is not correct. Here's the background: Patrick Martins and I first introduced Heritage Turkeys to retail stores by contacting the owners of the four major independent, premium, "boutique", "speciality" turkey growers in California and asking them to grow Heritage Turkeys and sell them in the retail market through retail grocers. I then contacted a number of premium retail grocery chains and persuaded them to sell the turkeys, mainly in California. This effort was successful.

The only producer still selling them is Pitman Farms, selling as Mary's Turkeys. Patrick also went on to found Heritage Foods, a mail-order retailer.

One of the farmers we contacted, Diestel Turkeys, decided to go its own way with a non-Heritage breed, but still one of the older breeds, the Broad-Breasted Bronze. This is the ancestor of the current Broad-Breasted White Frankenturkey. It can't mate naturally and is therefore not a heritage breed. Tim Diestel marketed this breed as an "heirloom turkey", with Whole Foods and other retailers. I believe there was a flap about this a few years ago when consumers in LA realized that these were not a Heritage Turkey. I've heard that the Southwestern Region of Whole Foods dropped them. You could probably confirm this by contacting Whole Foods' Office of Compassionate Animal Production in Austen. I was very concerned that the "heirloom" turkey not be confused with real Heritage Turkeys. The Diestels undoubtedly produce very good quality range turkeys.

I'm not experienced in editing Wikipedia so I haven't added the information in this e-mail to any discussion. Feel free to quote any or all of it.

Another change I plan to make the the Heritage Turkey article is to emphasize how very tiny the number of real Heritage Turkeys is. More than 200,000,000 frankenturkeys are sold each year. Numbers of real Heritage Turkeys are hard to track, but fewer than 50,000 are grown each year. My current guess would be around 25,000. Naturally, they are very hard for retail customers to find although I think we've "turned the corner" on this, this year. The number should steadily increase from now one.

Thank you for your article. I should have thought of writing one myself but I find the Wikipedia interface a little intimidating."

Mastrude (talk) 23:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for signing up and for helping out with the article. The only change I've made is to remove the last sentence you added. I did this because you stated an opinion ("considered a great success") without attributing that opinion to an organization or individual. Since Wikipedia cannot express original opinions, every such statement has to be referenced to a reliable published source. Otherwise, I really appreciate your edits. I'm glad we could resolve the difference between heirloom and heritage turkeys; I wasn't aware that Broad-breasted Whites were being marketed as heirloom birds. Steven Walling 23:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I've found an authoritative source for my comment that this project is a great success in the making, and have added it to the article again. I'm not sure that the format of the citation is exactly correct, but it contains a live link to the source. Here's a note I sent to the author of this article (edited since, a little):

"I've found a published source for my comment about "great success". I'll add it to the article and let you edit it.

Heritage Turkey breeds were allowed to "drift" for 75 years and they lost good production characteristics during that period. They became too small. In 2009 Heritage Turkeys have begun to overcome this critical challenge as breeds return to commercial viability.

As a number of people have commented "We are saving these birds by eating them." (Sources, Patrick Martins, Heritage Foods USA, Frank Reese, Good Shepherd Turkey Ranch. I don't have citations for this comment, so am keeping it to this discussion.)

For many small family farmers, Heritage Turkeys represent a viable new livelihood.

Still, it's very difficult for the average consumer to buy these birds at a reasonable price. That's why I believe it's important to return them to retail grocery stores.

Mastrude (talk) 01:34, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

The initiators of this project knew from the beginning that it could be a great success. Americans love their turkeys, and many have been greatly distressed for decades over the disgusting way many or most commercial poultry are raised. To have the involvement of culinary organizations like Slow Food, with scientific organizations like American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, and with humane organizations like the Animal Welfare Institute and Whole Foods' Office of Humane Animal Production, makes an unbeatable combination." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mastrude (talk • contribs) 01:34, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Mastrude (talk) 01:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for looking for a source, but an ALBC press release is not a reliable, published source (like a book, newspaper, magazine article etc.) It doesn't quite qualify in terms of what need for sourcing. Since we're quoting their statement I think it's okay, but in the future I'd avoid using it. Steven Walling 01:45, 20 October 2009 (UTC)