Talk:Henry Beaufort

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Mother of the Daughter of Henry Cardinal Beaufort, 1375-1447

I recognize that Wikipedia is not a genealogy forum, nor do the moderators and editors encourage discussion on same, but the descendants (legitimate and otherwise) of John of Gaunt became a matter of state during the War of the Roses and, as such, are the stuff of history.

The article on Henry Beaufort, Roman Catholic Cardinal for England and Chancellor of England on three occasions, says he had an illegitimate daughter by Alice, daughter of Richard fitz Alan and Elizabeth de Bohun. Assuming the author of the article meant Richard fitz Alan, 10th Earl of Arundel, KG (1346-1397), with his wife Elizabeth de Bohun, daughter of William de Bohun, Earl of Northampton First (d 1385), there was indeed a daughter Alice. However, before Mar 1392 this Alice was married to John Cherlton, feudal lord of Powys, Lord Cherlton 4th, and presumably residing with him during the time Cardinal Beaufort was in seminary. No mention of a daughter Joan is credited to her. Source: Van der Pas, Leo, www.genealogics.org, citing Burke's Dormant Peerages, 1866 edition, reference 201.

Nor does selecting daughter Joan (b 1375) of Richard and Elizabeth solve the problem, as she is likewise married, to William de Beauchamp, Baron Abergavenny First, issue Richard, born same time frame. Source: Van der Pas, citing Paget, The Lineage and Ancestry of HRH Prince Charles The Prince of Wales, 1977.

As of 1997 the identity of the mother of Joan Beaufort, daughter of Cardinal Beaufort, was not known. Joan Beaufort, born ca 1400 and died 19 Oct 1479, married Sir Edward Stradling of St Donat's Castle abt 1420 and had issue Henry (b ca 1423-1433, son and heir to his father), John, and David. Presumably as she was of age before the decease of her father she is mentioned in contemporary sources, but the name of her mother was not recorded. Source: Van der Pas, citing Dupont and Saillot, Cahiers de Saint-Louis, references 95 and 857, and Burke, Burke's Guide to the Royal Family, 1973, reference 200.

If this information is to remain in Wikipedia it begs for a footnote.

Genehisthome 05:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No known evidence for the mother of Cardinal Beaufort's daughter

A quick look on soc.genealogy.medieval reveals that the name of the mother of the Cardinal's illegitimate daughter was still not known even in 2006, due to a total lack of any real documentary evidence, however the general consensus seems to be that the fact he mentioned her and her husband in his will, as beneficiaries named directly after the king, lends some weight to the belief that Jane/Joan was probably Cardinal Beaufort's daughter, though she is not actually named as his daughter in his will. I agree, this part of the article needs to be more factual, rather than just saying Beaufort had an affair with Alice Fitz-Alan & they had a daughter Jane who married Edward Stradling, for which there is so far, no real evidence. Brograve 04:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also he is rumored to have had this daughter before he became a priest. The middle ages were strange, it was a well established fact that men of all areas of life to have mistresses. It was even considered the right of royalty. Men rule the world, huh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.42.105.48 (talk) 23:12, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not as 'strange' as that comment. _Fortuna ^{Imperatrix Mundi} 13:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with chronology

The article says:

After his parents were married in early 1396, Henry, his two brothers and one sister were declared legitimate by Pope Boniface IX and legitimated by Act of Parliament on 9 February 1397, but they were barred from the succession to the throne.^[1]^[2]^[3] This later proviso was promulgated with the exact phrase excepta regali dignitate (English: the royal dignity excepted) by their half-brother Henry IV with dubious authority.^{[citation needed]}

That last sentence (which already has a [citation needed] tag seems out of place chronologically: if an act of parliament legitimated Henry and his brothers in 1397, how could Henry IV have promulgated the law if he wasn't king yet? --Jfruh (talk) 07:00, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the part that was marked as needing citation. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:59, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cokayne Complete Peerage Volume XII pp. 40–41
^ Schofield, Nicholas; Skinner, Gerald (2007). The English Cardinals. Oxford, UK: Family Publications. p. 60. ISBN 978-1-871217-65-0.
^ Williams, David (1996). British Royalty. London, UK: Cassell. pp. 240–41. ISBN 0-304-34933-X.

[CPXII40-1] Cokayne Complete Peerage Volume XII pp. 40–41

[2] Schofield, Nicholas; Skinner, Gerald (2007). The English Cardinals. Oxford, UK: Family Publications. p. 60. ISBN 978-1-871217-65-0.

[3] Williams, David (1996). British Royalty. London, UK: Cassell. pp. 240–41. ISBN 0-304-34933-X.

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