Talk:Harry Ferguson

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Northern Ireland

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Who was Harry Ferguson

Despite not being able to find the source, I'm fairly sure this is a copyvio. It certainly seems like one. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 14:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 04:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"First person in Great Britain or Ireland to build and fly his own aeroplane"

From this article: "After a delay of nearly a week caused by bad weather, the Ferguson monoplane finally took off from Hillsborough on 31 December 1909. Harry Ferguson became the first Irishman to fly and the first citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to build and fly his own aeroplane." Cited to the 'Ferguson Family Museum' website and another website 'The Harry Ferguson Legacy'.

From https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Alliott_Verdon_Roe : "...he then began to build a full-size aeroplane, the Roe I Biplane, based on his winning model. He tested this at Brooklands in 1907–08, recording his first successful flight on 8 June 1908. After encountering problems with the management of Brooklands he moved his flight experiments to Walthamstow Marshes, where he rented space under a railway arch at the western end of the viaduct. Despite many setbacks, Roe persisted with his experiments and there is now a blue plaque commemorating his first successful flight (in July 1909) at the site. His aircraft, Avroplane, a triplane, is preserved in London's Science Museum." Cited to Roots In The Sky - A History of British Aerospace Aircraft, a published reference work. Also see https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Roe_I_Triplane : "The Roe I Triplane (often later referred to as the Avro Triplane) was an early aircraft designed and built by A.V. Roe which was the first all-British aircraft to fly.[1] (Roe's previous biplane had a French engine)." Cited to another reference work: Avro Aircraft Since 1908. Also see Treadwell, British Aircraft of the First World War: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=n2KoAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=first+british+plane+a+v+roe&source=bl&ots=Okurq3P-CI&sig=xb2iILyoStR9KZHT-13TvVnljfI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9g-3JsNbSAhXBkywKHS4GCCoQ6AEITDAH#v=onepage&q=first%20british%20plane%20a%20v%20roe&f=false There is no mention of any flights by Ferguson here https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1959/1959%20-%200939.html , a source cited in this article. Unless anyone can come up with any evidence that Harry Ferguson flew his plane before 8 June 1908, I will be editing this article to remove references to his being the first person in Great Britain or Ireland to build and fly his own aeroplane. Robocon1 (talk) 16:35, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The claim of first Irishman to fly & build own plane is now cited to website https://www.harryfergusonlegacy.com/index.php Also, "In the UK, the first-ever sustained powered flight was made in October 1908 by the American aviator Samuel Franklin Cody, and the first Briton to accomplish powered flight in the UK was John Moore-Brabazon in May 1909,[4] but this had not yet been achieved in Ireland.” has been corrected. According to http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Harry_Ferguson and and the newspaper article quoted in http://www.ferguson-museum.co.uk/monoplane.htm Ferguson’s flight was 130 yards, not sustained powered flight. Robocon1 (talk) 14:50, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090130005125/http://www.ulsterhistory.co.uk/harryferguson.htm to http://www.ulsterhistory.co.uk/harryferguson.htm

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External links modified

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Added archive https://archive.is/20040919132531/http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/engvillage/harryferguson.htm to http://www.engj.ulst.ac.uk/engvillage/harryferguson.htm

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External links modified

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Place of birth

My edit correcting this article in accordance with WP:IMOS (specifically Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles#Place of birth, death etc. was partially reverted without explanation. The guideline is quite clear on this.

"The place of birth, residence and/or death of people who were born, lived or died before 1921 in what today is Northern Ireland should be given simply as "Ireland", and they should not be described as "Northern Irish". "Ireland" should not normally be linked, but if thought necessary should be linked as Ireland, not Ireland"

In the absence of any guideline to the contrary, I propose to reinstate my change. FDW777 (talk) 16:08, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ireland was an integral part of the United Kingdom why are you deleting facts, have you an ulterior motive DeeHistorian (talk) 22:11, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Once again I direct you to MOS:IMOS BIOPLACE. Given you have been ignoring this with your account as well as 86.14.113.186 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and 86.14.67.133 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), it is your own motives that are in question. FDW777 (talk) 22:21, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Declaration of conflict of interest

@FDW777, Antiqueight, DH85868993, Bob Castle, and Headbomb: Other recent editors: Greetings and felicitations. I am the great grandson of Harry Ferguson's wife Maureen's brother Albert. Here are my edits. —DocWatson42 (talk) 05:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why omit "United Kingdom" from place of birth?

For about a month now I've been watching the place of birth field in the infobox being toggled between ..., Ireland, United Kingdom and ..., Ireland (without United Kingdom). What is the reason for not including that fact? It doesn't seem to conflict with anything in MOS:IMOS BIOPLACE - that is only concerned with whether it is Ireland or Northern Ireland. Especially when in the same infobox we have his death place given as ..., England, United Kingdom. Both England and Ireland were constituent countries of the UK at the time of his birth. -- DeFacto (talk). 15:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The place of birth, residence and/or death of people who were born, lived or died before 1921 in what today is Northern Ireland should be given simply as "Ireland" (my emphasis). Not "Ireland, United Kingdom". FDW777 (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I read that as simply "Ireland" rather than "Northern Ireland". It doesn't mean to the exculsion of the rest of the address - or you'd have to exclude County Down too. It is factual and clarifies the situation back then. -- DeFacto (talk). 15:53, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest taking this to WT:IMOS then, since a brief look at the archives suggests the exclusion of UK is what's intended. FDW777 (talk) 15:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To my mind part of the problem is that Wikipedia, wrongly, maintains separate articles for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the latter occupying the United Kingdom page. This means that links to United Kingdom are inappropriate for articles referring to events before 1922. DuncanHill (talk) 16:07, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Given that there are the two UK articles, you'd have to pipe the link to the other one thus: [[United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland|United Kingdom]]; giving United Kingdom. -- DeFacto (talk). 16:16, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@FDW777, let's see if there's a consensus here first, as to whether it would be desirable to add it, or not. -- DeFacto (talk). 16:12, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus at WT:IMOS has been against it, see for example Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles/Archive 5#Establishing consensus for proposal. The idea that this article needs to be an exception to the rule is non-existent. FDW777 (talk) 16:23, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think De Facto's is a good idea, he has my support. Eddaido (talk) 10:37, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you to one particular objection from the archived linked to

* Very strongly oppose singling out Ireland and Irish people only for this treatment. I would perceive that as another throw of the regular nationalist pissing matches that occur on articles to do with this region. This suggestion however — if Ireland is to be singled out — is a particularly low and overt form of it. I am not opposed to indicating that England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland are/were in the United Kingdom (e.g. that Charles Darwin born in "Shropshire, England, United Kingdom" or that George Boole died in "Ballintemple, County Cork, Ireland, United Kingdom"). As pointed out by Scolare — and more creatively by Jeanne Boleyn — this is not usual practice. However, if we do so, it needs to be done neutrally and consistently. This means that Liam Gallagher was born in "Burnage, Manchester, England, United Kingdom" in the same way that Robert Emmet was executed in "Dublin, Ireland, United Kingdom". I don't see that flying (for the reason that it is not usual practice). However, singling out Ireland — if that is the proposal — is no more than nationalist territory marking, IMO. Finally, agreeing to change to current practice will require wider discussion. The IMOS is not the place to determine the style to be used in all articles to do with the United Kingdom.

I repeat this talk page is not the place for this discussion, since it involves everyone born in the UK. FDW777 (talk) 13:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My response to your very blustery excerpt is that some Irish chose to be different and leave the UK and created an exception. Some did not. So I very strongly oppose not singling out Northern Irish people. The current description lets so many ill-educated people (like Joe Biden) think Ireland is politically unified and its not is it. Its perpetuating mis-understanding. I'll never forget watching President Bush being unable to understand whereabouts Wales was in the US. Eddaido (talk) 06:11, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 August 2024

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The Ferguson Belfast Black Prototype tractor was put on display at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum, Cultra on the 22nd August, 2024. This tractor was the world's first Ferguson System tractor. It had previously been on display at the Science Museum in London. Completed at Harry Ferguson's workshop in Belfast in 1933. Its display includes information panels outlining his role in revolutionising the use of the farm tractor and its impact on the development of modern agriculture. (See https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064696630789 )

or facebook stevanpatterson Stevandtpatterson (talk) 21:16, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. McYeee (talk) 21:46, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 October 2024

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The Ferguson Belfast Black Prototype tractor that was built in Harry Ferguson's workshop in the centre of Belfast, Northern Ireland and was finally completed in 1933 has recently returned to Northern Ireland. It had previously been on display at the Science Museum, London. It is now on display at the Ulster Transport Museum, Cultra Stevandtpatterson (talk) 15:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bowler the Carmine | talk 19:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done I have updated the article accordingly. DuncanHill (talk) 19:23, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]