Talk:Harpo Marx

I think this article needs an overhaul

also, i have a great picture of harpo. i was wondering how i add it under the fair use provision thingy? im pretty new here. Everything Inane 05:09, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree, this article does need some work. And, if you're still around, I think your picture may be good. It should qualify as fair use. If you took the picture or it was taken before 1922 there'd be no copyright to worry about but I doubt either is the case. Nevertheless, it probably would qualify as fair use. Check out WP:Fair use if you haven't already for reasons why it might be acceptable.

This article does need a good photograph of Harpo. The Dali drawing (while interesting) isn't as good as a photograph would be. -kotra 11:32, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Why did he have an open heart surgery?

It is usually because of a heart attack. Rarely done as elective surgery.Shsilver 16:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

yes, he had a few heart attacks. if you want to read about it i suggest "harpo speaks", his autobiography. he initially became scared and was careful with the heart attacks, but after a while he decided to continue to do the things he loved anyways, like the harp, and golf, and just having fun. he was true to the last. Everything Inane 04:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

• I can't find my copy of the book. Since you have it, could you maybe clear up (if necessary) the question of what his real name was? I don't think it was "Adolph Arthur Marx", I think it was originally "Adolph" and he changed it to "Arthur". But I'm not totally sure on that point. Wahkeenah 09:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

i think you might be right, but i dont remember, ill have to look into it

Yes, his real name was Adolph. His brothers called him "Ahdie". It's a little creepy how his "adopted" son Alex looks alot like Gummo in later life!!!

Look for "Harpo speaks" on Amazon.com. You'll prolly find it at a great price! In his autobio, he interestingly understates his age by 5 years, claiming 1893 as year of birth but I think betrays this by mentioning things like Grover Cleveland buttons.Jrm2007 09:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

More about Harpo Speaks: discovered via web search year of brothel piano playing was 1907 -- he cites article about the owner and her gang. Deliberate fuzziness again about years?Jrm2007 09:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I have Harpo Speaks in my travel bag - I'm fairly sure that in it he relates that he was born Adolph, and then changed it in the 1930s in response to the rise of Hitler and his brand of anti-semitism. I will search for the quote. -Harlsbottom 03:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

• Please do. I've been trying to find my copy. I too am almost certain he was born Adolph and changed it to Arthur; that his name was not "Adolph Arthur Marx". However, I haven't posted that because I couldn't find the book. Feel free to fix it. :) Wahkeenah 04:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
• This site [1] elaborates. The interesting thing is that Harpo was calling himself Arthur as early as 1913, before the outbreak of WWI. Now we really need to find out what he says in Harpo Speaks, especially if he is contradicting himself. But there seems little doubt that he was born Adolph and adopted the name Arthur. Wahkeenah 16:45, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the popular legend is that he changed it prior to WWII for obvious reasons and particularly to distance himself from the anti-Semitic Nazis, but the truth may be closer to avoiding anti-German sentiment prior to the Great War. The Marxes were demonstrably proud of being American, and the extent of Nazi German anti-Semitism wasn't apparent in the US until after American involvement in WWII. [EDIT] This is from the article on Marx Brothers:

During World War I, anti-German sentiments grew, and the family tried to hide their German origin. Harpo changed his real first name from Adolph to Arthur, and Groucho discontinued his "German" stage personality.

There is no citation, but it strangely encapsulates what I was trying to say earlier. This is echoed by one of the article's references, http://www.marx-brothers.org/biography/harpo.htm:

Harpo was given the name Adolph, but changed it to Arthur during World War I because it was too 'German'.

Although no exact date is given, the consensus is leaning toward the pre-WWI explanation. Canonblack 01:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

'George S. Kaufman and Moss Hart based the character of "Banjo" in their play The Man Who Came to Dinner on Harpo and later played the role in Los Angeles opposite Alexander Woolcott who had inspired the character of Sheridan Whiteside.'

Who played the role opposite Woolcott? Presumably Harpo but you can't be sure from this mess of a sentence. It could easily have been Kaufman or Hart. Harpo certainly did play "Banjo" at one point and, yes, he spoke! Please fix this! And you might also add citations! Ed (talk) 15:40, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Why is Harpo's d.o.b. listed as 1893 in 'Harpo Speaks' but 1888 on Wiki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PoeBird (talk • contribs) 18:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Allan Sherman and HM

My relevant book (A Gift of Laughter) is packed away, but it's worth mentioning that Marx and Allan Sherman were neighbors and good friends. Marx, as I recall, was partially responsible for jump-starting Sherman's parody-singing career (as distinct from his stalled career in television game shows).Lawikitejana 18:01, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Harpocrates

it was recently suggested and edited into the harpo page here that harpo was names after harpocrates, the egyptian god of silence. This is untrue according to the autobiography "Harpo Speaks", and I have removed it, but Ill be god damned if this isnt an interesting point. We know that there was great interest in egyption culture or at least fashion in the 20's as well. But even if the card player who gave Harpo his name knew this, it is too interesting that harpo happened to play the harp as well, and wasn't this beore he stopped speaking on stage? As far as I can tell it's all unrelated but even if it partially wasn't, it's very coincidential.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Everything Inane (talk • contribs) 01:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Everything Inane 01:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It was simply vandalism. No need to comment about it, just revert it.Shsilver 02:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It was at least somewhat clever... except Harpocrates would be Greek, not Egyptian. Meanwhile, there is no question that Harpo got his name from playing the harp. Groucho also mentioned that in his Carnegie Hall concert, along with Chico originally being Chick-o because he was a "chicken chaser". That prelude was a setup to his remark, "I have no idea where my nickname came from!" Wahkeenah 07:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi guys, my friend edited that & he complained to me that his edit was reverted. Could you see see if you'd like my edit instead? (Wikimachine 19:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC))

Well, as Harpo would say... "HONK!" Wahkeenah 23:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone keeps trying to add it back. It's only a coincidence, it's not true. And if you read the article, you'll see that the assertion that Harpocrates was the Egyptian god of silence is also not true. Wahkeenah 13:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

If the fact of the matter is, indeed, that there is not a real connection between Harpo and Harpokrates, then leave it out of the article. This is an encyclopedia after all, and not a trivia collection. I suggest we put it to a vote here: who wants Harpokrates in the article? I vote "no". --K72ndst 14:13, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

There is no reason to vote. It is plain and simple vandalism. Harpo got his name because he played the harp, a fact which is easily verifiable in numerous sources. If the vandals could find even a single reputable source for their garbage, I might think it could possibly be worth a vote. Voting on it, however, would be like voting whether to include a statement that Dorothy Parker got her name becasue she used to "park" with various men in dimly lit corners of Central Park. Shsilver 14:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Probably parking with Chico, ironically enough. For the moment, I'm going to pretend it's an honest mistake or "original research". It it happens again, then it's vandalism for sure, and the three revert rule will not apply (nor hopefully will it be necessary, but we'll see). Wahkeenah 14:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Please stop? Ha! Ridiculous. Look here. Did you not see the source? Just go to my user page. Any sign of credibility there? 3RR? I never reverted, added just once. Are you assuming that that anonymous user IP & I are sock puppets? I'd recommend some sign of apology, sir (or mam). Let me tell you this. My friend is the valedictorian at our school & sadly he can't contribute as he should because he has not a single clue on how Wiki works. Think of his contribution as a gift. He always complains that whatever he edits, people revert it back. Think again, buddy. Think again. (Wikimachine 00:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC))

A valedictorian who can't figure out how to type. Tell me another one. Like the Harpocrates story, which has nothing whatsoever to do with Harpo Marx. Wahkeenah 02:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

But the valedictorian did explain why they were named after Harpocrates. They were silent. (Wikimachine 04:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC))

Those "citations" are collections of uncited opinions and speculation, along with echo sites of this site. The Marx Brothers explained where their nicknames came from. Harpo's came from playing the harp. If you can find a cite where the Marx Brothers say anything about Harpocrates, then you've got something. Wahkeenah 02:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. Taipei Times is reliable. Another source: [2]. Ah... A reliable hard copy! [3].

(Wikimachine 04:24, 23 February 2007 (UTC))

The Marx Brothers have only ever said that it had to do with Harpo's skill with the harp. Any other assertions are fabrications. Your continued insistence on pushing this fairy tale must now be considered vandalism, and will be treated as such. Wahkeenah 04:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

And no it won't. There's clear difference between vandalism & different viewpoints & let me tell you, sir, that you've started this discussion on the wrong foot. No good faith. To assume that the edits were done in conspiracy by sock puppets, & to "considered vandalism" (ha!)... What authority do you have to "consider" another user's edit as vandalism outside the procedural bounds? You haven't even apologized yet. You know, this arrogance of yours is smothering me out of here. I don't even know who Harpo Marx is nor am I interested, so I'll quit on this article & detach it off of my watchlist. Pathetic. (Wikimachine 06:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC))

It has nothing to do with "viewpoints". The Marx family, in various media (such as Harpo's autobiography) always said that Harpo's name came strictly from his skill at playing the harp. There is no evidence they ever said anything different. I've pointed this out several times, and you ignore it, despite your own admission that you know nothing about Harpo Marx. Just because some blog writer or columnist makes the connection doesn't mean there's anything to it. You could add that info to the article if you say "coincidentally". To try to assert that it actually came from that Egyptian god's name is verifiably a falsehood. Wahkeenah 12:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

The Egyptian god's name was Hor/Horus. Harpocrates was some Hellenistic development of him, but I have only seen the name used in the poetry of Catullus, that I can remember (I studied Hellenistic poetry as a post-grad, but I can't remember if he is mentioned or not). Silly coincidence, imo. In fact there's a page on him. Sorry if someone posted a link to it above. https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Harpocrates Fuficius Fango (talk) 12:22, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Algonquin Round Table proposal at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals, please vote!

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Interested Wikipedians (please add your name)

1. Otto4711 17:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
2. Chris 06:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Wow, a project of depth, thought and lasting impact! Most cool, I'm in! Chris 06:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

How many Nightingales?

From the Groucho Marx article: They were billing themselves as 'The Four Nightingales', Julius, Milton (Gummo Marx), Adolph (Harpo Marx) (later changed to Arthur), and another boy singer, Lou Levy...

From this article: In January 1910, Harpo joined two of his brothers, Julius (later "Groucho") and Milton, to form "The Three Nightingales". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.236.175 (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Harpo and Firesign Theater

At the end of Firesign Theater's third album, Don't Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers (1970), considered (justly) by some to be the greatest English-language audio comedy album, the Everyman protagonist of the album, George Leroy Tirebiter, an elderly retired ex-actor, ex-director, ex-soldier, ex-student/spy, receives a wake-up call from his answering service (he replies, "that's alright, my dear, I've been up all night watching myself on the TV"). When he asks if there are any messages for him, the operator replies by reeling off a list of messages from persons clearly identifiable as important figures from the early era of movies, especially comedy movies: "Mr. Sennett...Mr. Keaton...Mr. Roach," etc. The receptionist also says "and from a Mr. Honk! Honk! Honk! [imitating the sound of a bicycle horn, which Harpo always carried in the pockets of his oversized jackets and used as another nonverbal means of emphatic communication]; he wouldn't leave his name." It's clearly a reference to Harpo. maccbMaccb (talk) 01:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Harpo Uses His Voice In A Night At The Opera

There's a scene in A Night At The Opera in which Harpo appears to play what looks and sounds like a kazoo. In order to play that instrument he had to use his voice. Worth a mention in the article? AncientBrit (talk) 11:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that he spoke a line in one of the last Marx Brothers film as a sort of marketing gimmick. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.114.16 (talk) 21:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I've seen footage from a movie premier where he is interviewed by a reporter, the joke being the reporter asks a question and he says nothing. However, the camera did catch him prior to the interviewer asking the question saying "Are we ready?" or such. So while no in a film, he has spoken "on camera" another time. 203.35.82.133 (talk) 22:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Moscow

The source in the paragraph about Moscow seems to be somebody's class paper. Now, it does cite sources; shouldn't we just cite those reliable sources rather than the class paper? Yworo (talk) 19:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I've Got A Secret

The article mentions Harpo being on "I've Got A Secret." I saw a replay of the episode and what actually happened was that someone who looked exactly like Harpo came out, but the secret was "I'm not Harpo, I'm actually Chico." Can we fit that on here somehow? Or would it be better under Chico's page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobbyknightmare (talk • contribs) 05:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Birthdate?

In his autobiography, Harpo writes:

Adolpho is the name I was given when I was born, in New York City, in 1893.

Yet most biographies of him state his birth as 1888, and his death at age 75. In fact, the biographical info on the inside title page of the very same book lists his dates as 1888–1964. (The book can be found online at Google Books, ch.2, p.17.) So what is his real birthdate? Should these edits be reverted? — Loadmaster (talk) 20:05, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Throughout his book "Harpo Speaks!" when he speaks of his age it all consistently works back to 1893. A good example is when he speaks of his friends having a 35th birthday party for him in 1928. Everything works back to 1893. It also seems logical for his birthday to have been 1893 and that the following is correct Chico - 1891 Harpo - 1893 Groucho - 1895 Gummo - 1897 and Zeppo - 1901. Otherwise there would be a big gap between the first three and the last two (if Gummo's is correct). Why would Harpo lie about his age throughout his book? Everywhere he's consistent in his age going back to 1893. Peter Jensen (talk) 22:18, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

No, it's well known that all the Marx Brothers were shaving five years off their ages by the time they got to Hollywood, and very well established that the correct birth years are 1887 (Chico), 1888 (Harpo), 1890 (Groucho), 1892 (Gummo) and 1901 (Zeppo). The fact that he's consistent throughout his book just means he did the math a few times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.39.141.5 (talk) 19:55, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

@8.39.141.5: Citation, please? Peaceray (talk) 00:29, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

His son claims that on his website, as found by User_talk:96.231.198.227. Ramaksoud2000 ^{(Talk to me)} 03:22, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Section: Legacy

The tone is that of a personal essay. Please help clean it up! Earendil56 (talk) 19:54, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

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musicianship --nothing about

waaa. i wanted to find out if he played those instruments for real. also something about how he came to those instruments. didn't really see musical info. music's kind of a big deal with this character Cramyourspam (talk) 00:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Someone needs to look at this question. You can find plenty of evidence that he played the harp - well to some people's ears - BUT that doesn't prove that he is actually the harpist on the soundtracks, although he may be. In fact, if you watch carefully, you'll see that sometimes he is playing a different arrangement from the one on the soundtrack. Fuficius Fango (talk) 15:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Glass blowers are special?

"The turn-of-the-century building [...] was populated with European immigrants, mostly artisans – which even included a glass blower." What is so peculiar about glass blowers that they deserve this special mentioning? Sure, it's a rare craft these days. But this goes for most artisans, and the sentence speaks about artisans in general before singling out glass blowers. What's so special about them? SchnitteUK (talk) 14:44, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that, even then, glass bottles were mass-produced on machines. So a glass blower would make art pieces, ornaments. Some of them were very skilled indeed, I suppose you'd have to be, to be a success and charge decent prices. And since there was only one of him, "even a".

I don't suppose it NEEDS a special mention. But why not? Gives the sentence a bit of life. No good reason to get rid of it. Gives the article a bit of story, instead of just being a simple list of facts. Assuming it's true, then it's just a nice way of making it sound colourful.

188.29.165.202 (talk) 15:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

speech

Because Harpo never spoke a word in all of his movies and TV appearances, many fans and other people believed he really was dumb. I have corrected this three times now; someone keeps changing the last word to mute for some reason, thus defeating the sense of the paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.93.58 (talk) 01:02, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

You did not give any explanation for the edit (until now). I changed it back for the reason I gave, which is that "dumb" no longer means "unable to speak" in the common vernacular; it now means "stupid". How, exactly, does "mute" -- which is a far more appropriate descriptor in this context -- "defeat the sense of the paragraph"? Also, please sign your posts in the future. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 14:06, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Not hard to understand, really. Because his character was dumb/mute, some people assumed he really was dumb/stupid. It is not unusual for people to confuse lack of speech with lack of intellect, and at the time Harpo was making movies it was even more common to make the association. The sense of the paragraph comes from the association of the two meanings of "dumb". Please don't allow a misguided sense of political correctness to undermine the informative value of a statement. The "common vernacular" of right now, is not relevent to the period of Harpo's professional activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.206.187.1 (talk) 07:44, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Filmography

I think we should add a filmography to this article. It seems arbitrary not to include one. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 05:54, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Harpo gives coffee to homeless man

Harpo gave a cup of coffee, which he pulled from his pocket, to a homeless man in Horse Feathers, not in A Night At The Opera. Avant678 (talk) 14:55, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Birthdate in autobiography

Comment refactored to correct talkpage.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:43, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

birthday = 1893, ref: his autobiography184.183.182.110 (talk) 12:02, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Harpo Marx/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Solid article, there does not seem to be much missing for debate. It lacks the clear timelines and organization to get a higher grade (i.e. the Groucho Marx article)

Last edited at 12:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 17:11, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Origin of the stage name

The explanation given doesn't make sense. He got the name at a card game because he played the harp? Was he playing background music for the game? Was he playing cards and there just happened to be a concert harp sitting in the corner that he went over an played after throwing in his hand? Harps are expensive, and were even back in vaudeville days -- where did he get the harp from?

Laater in that section: "but he could not have tuned it properly; if he had, the strings would have broken each night" -- makes no sense. If the instrument were tuned properly why would the strings be breaking "each night"? Professional harpists all over the world have been tuning the instrument properly for a hundred yeaaars and more, and they don't find themselves having to restring daily.

More (and better ) information on his harp playing is needed.

Hello, whoever you are. I agree that the tuning comment makes no sense, so, since it's unsourced, I took it out. I will see what's said about the relation of harps to his stagename and see if I can find an RS for it later, hopefully today. As for improved info about him playing harp, go nuts. Anyone can edit, so, if you can source some more info, add it in! I may look for that as well. Suffice it to say, I recently did a lot of work on this article, and I think it's better for it. I added lots of info as have numerous other editors, but there's plenty that should be added and fixed. My suggestion is always that, if it's important to you, you should do the work instead of hoping someone else will. If it's not that important to you, since Wikipedia is always being edited and expanded, someone will likely get to it soon. Some users don't like fellow Wikipedians announcing what work needs doing rather than chipping in. I used to do that a lot, though, especially in my early Wiki-days, so I see no harm - but I still encourage yourself to do it yourself - your input could be really helpful! FireWalkWithMe27♣(talk) 23:12, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Pls fix typo

Hi All,

I was about to fix a typo in the "In other media section" (the "Harpo also took an interest in painting." paragraph). The typo is an extra character (f) at the end of the paragraph. When I deleted it & checked out the Preview of the altered paragraph, all the sources were re-numbered relative to that paragraph, so I decided not to save it. Could someone with slightly more Wiki editing experience pls fix it? Thanks. SaturnCat (talk) 14:44, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Hey there! I did tons of editing on this and I guarantee you I made that typo. Thanks for spotting it and letting me/us know! I'm still learning, but it appears that when you only edit a particular section, the notations get all wonky in the preview - perhaps it renumbers them, as they're the only citations visible in that preview. When you edit the whole page's source, this doesn't seem to happen. Regardless, I took the offending "f" the f out. ;) Thanks again! Cheers. FireWalkWithMe27♣(talk) 23:00, 31 December 2020 (UTC)