Talk:Harold and Inge Marcus Department of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering

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Harold and Inge Marcus Department of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 27, 2007.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 8, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
August 18, 2006	Featured article candidate	Promoted
August 11, 2016	Articles for deletion	Merged
September 15, 2016	Featured article review	Demoted
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 23, 2006. The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that the Harold and Inge Marcus Department of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering of the Pennsylvania State University, founded in 1908, was the first industrial engineering department in the world?
Current status: Former featured article

world->nation, 1908->1909?

I found information in this reference: Bezilla, Michael (1996). The College of Engineering at Penn State - A Century in the Land-Grant Tradition. The Pennsylvania State University Press. p. 52. IBSN 0-271-01550-0. that disputes some of the info in this IE article. Specifically:

IE was a two-year course within ME in 1908, is that the same as the department being founded? (I'm asking) (pg. 52)
IE department was first in the nation in 1909, not world (pg. 52, and listed under "National Distinctions" on the outside back cover)

I know this is a wiki, but you obviously put a lot of work into the article, and I didn't want to jump in and make changes without first consulting you. For the Glory, Rob^Talk 00:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm not sure about this. The IE Dept. website ([1]) says 1908 and first in the world, and Bezilla in his illustrated history of PSU says:

"These studies proved so popular that a year later [i.e., in 1909] they were expanded to a four-year program and formed the core of a new Department of Industrial Engineering-the first of its kind in the world."

Not sure what that means, but it's at least true that being the "first in the nation" doesn't exclude also being the "first in the world". The 1908 vs. 1909 thing isn't clear either; not sure what to do about that. Seems like the term "department" is a rather new construction, and as a result different people apply it to different things. In the actual text of the article I avoid the problem by stating the 2-year course was started in 1908 and the 4-year course in 1909. I'm fine with saying the department was founded in 1909, but it's rather ambiguous. —Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 01:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Based on further research, I'm not sure either actually. The Bezilla book says one thing, but University archives support the first in the world claim with a quote from Marcus. So benefit of the doubt rules, and first in the world it is. Rob^Talk 18:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

IW

Needs some interwiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jan Hayer (talk • contribs)

Unfortunately, I don't think there are other wikipedias that have an article about this subject; it is a particularly narrow topic. --Spangineer^ws (háblame) 04:14, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Broken template

Three first citations are just stating a red template: Template:Cite State University Press. This needs to be fixed.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 02:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed; someone decided to delete the "cite book" reference that was there originally. --Spangineer^ws (háblame) 04:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just me?

Is it just me, or is anyone else surprised that this article made it to featured article status? Eric Wester 22:57, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is an anomaly because it's short and about a really specific subject, but a variety of people agreed that it is of featured caliber. Do you have any suggestions for improving it? --Spangineer^ws (háblame) 00:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, I am not saying it's a bad article by any means. I just didn't really think that it was as high of caliber as some of the other featured articles I see. No harm meant! Eric Wester 01:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

None taken; I understand where you're coming from. --Spangineer^ws (háblame) 02:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oldest in the world?

The University of Madrid claims to have started a school of industrial engineering circa 1850. http://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/articulo?codigo=62202 --kittyKAY4 (talk) 19:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COI and notability

Since the fa status was awarded, there have been major contibutions by an apparently declared COI editor. The effect has been both to add references, and to changethe style to that resembling a PR brochure. We also normally do not consider individual university departments notable unelss they are one of the most famous in the world. This is not of that rank, as thearticle itself makes clear, although it is one of the oldest. DGG ( talk ) 04:50, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]