Talk:Harold Kushner/GA1

GA Review

Passed. Pbritti (talk) 14:42, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Pbritti (talk · contribs) 17:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this review. Expect more comments today. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

Below, I'll be listing some comments from my initial read-through of this article. I have done a couple of minor grammatical tweaks already, but decided that it would be better to leave the rest of these changes to the review process.

Lead

The second paragraph should be expanded to express what the books Kushner wrote were about.
Listing one of the awards (perhaps the one most commonly referenced or most prestigious) and the year he received it would be a nice addition.
Shorten the titles to exclude the subtitles
Link "Reconstructionist" to Reconstructionist Judaism
Link "human agency" to Agency (philosophy)
Agency is not explicitly discussed anywhere in the main text of the article; please refer to it or remove it from the lead
Link "omnipotent"
Link "God" to God in Judaism
Infobox is good to go

Early life and education

Use his full name (or just "Harold Kushner") at first reference.
Link "Conservative Jewish"
For his mother's maiden name, add the template {{nee}} preceding "Hartman" per MOS:NE (not a GA requirement)
Drop "the borough of" before "Brooklyn" and rewrite to "Brooklyn, New York City."
Link Crown Heights, Brooklyn
Remove "Professor" before "Mark Van Doren"
Rewrite "Kushner held various extracurricular positions while studying at Columbia. He worked [...]" to something along the lines of "At Columbia, Kushner's extracurricular positions included [...]" and combine the final sentence of that paragraph to the preceding sentence
What does "Zionist" mean here? Link to the relevant definition
Say in-line where the Jewish Theological Seminary of America is
Mention what his degrees were in, particularly his doctoral degree
Find a reference to resolve the {{cn}} tag
Move the honorary degrees mention to the Personal life section
A single-sentence paragraph is generally unadvisable; consider expanding on his association with Kaplan or Kaplan's influence. If unable to do so, consider finding another location either in this section or elsewhere to mention this information.
Move the material on his military service to the "Rabbinical career" section; he was an ordained member of the chaplain corps, so I presume he served in a ministerial capacity. Additionally, elaborate on his military service if possible.

Rabbinical career

Combine first paragraph of this section with the last paragraph of the preceding section
"Temple Israel of Natick, in Natick, Massachusetts," can be rewritten to "Temple Israel, Natick, Massachusetts"
Say where he was lecturing
Use lowercase letters for "state funeral"
Unlink Bible and use lowercase "the"
This section feels like bullet-points more than a collection of complete thoughts. Please elaborate on role in the Rabbinical Assembly and expand on why he was selected to serve as a eulogist for the Reagan funeral

Writing

Consider rewriting the first sentence of the first paragraph to remove at least a couple of the commas
Link "skepticism"
"is best known for" is a statement that requires strong and explicit sourcing; the Times of Israel article comes close to expressing this but instead emphasizes the book's popularity
Consider linking "benevolence" to Omnibenevolence
Unlink "God" as this refers to God across multiple religious contexts and is a common term
Capitalize "Book" for "Book of Job"
Link to The New York Times Best Seller list
"It was tied for the ninth spot with the Bible, which claimed the top position." This is a paradoxical statement–was the Bible in ninth spot or the top position?
Other than previously mentioned tweaks, the paragraph on When Bad Things Happen to Good People should be considered as a model for how the rest of this article would be written for it to meet the GA standards
Expand on the contents and contexts regarding When All You've Ever Wanted Isn't Enough. Another two sentences would be perfect
Paragraph on Who Needs God? is well-executed and I have to AGF on the sourcing there
Paragraph starting "Kushner wrote a number of" is a bit disjointed. Consider splitting some of these ideas and seeking additional retrospectives on why his bibliography had a broad appeal
Rewrite the sentence "The book figured The Old Testament's Jacob as its central character."
Paragraph on Living a Life That Matters should explain if the book is a commentary on Jacob's life, uses him as comparative tool, or is a fictional work that utilizes Jacob as the main character
Link to Jacob
Define "Simon Wiesenthal's question of forgiveness" for the reader who may not have familiarity with both Wiesenthal and his writings on forgiveness. Quotations from The Sunflower to achieve this end are acceptable uses of a primary source
Do we have a superior source on his tenure as the editor of Conservative Judaism as this strikes me as a smidge of original research

Copyright interlude

I used Earwig's copyvio tool to search for possible copyright violations. As I've experienced in multiple DYK reviews and my most recent GA review, Earwig is imperfect (through no fault of the tool's own). As such, I want to be very clear: its claim of a 94% chance of copyright violation is not correct. Some people have clearly copy-and-pasted the content of this article to several locations around the internet. However, the Earwig did reveal several instances where paraphrasing should be executed.

NYT obituary: The first paragraph of the first section is too proximate and needs to be rewritten. "he enrolled in an evening program at the Jewish Theological Seminary" also need to be paraphrased. Other instances of overlap are phrases or titles that would be impaired or distorted by paraphrasing.
Temple Israel of Natick: The following phrases need paraphrasing: "at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, taught at Clark University and the Rabbinical School of the JTS, and received six honorary doctorates"; "a number of other popular theological books, such as"; "at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, taught at Clark University and the Rabbinical School of the JTS, and received six honorary doctorates" [Side note: hey! Look at that! The reference for our {{cn}} tag!]
Deseret: The following phrase needs paraphrasing: "about the reliability of people who believe God spoke to them [...] Abraham going to sacrifice his son, Isaac, on the altar to God"
Columbia profile: Rephrase the following passage: "until 1983, when he began to serve the synagogue"

Note: Further comments on the final sections to follow shortly. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:07, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Views

Please further define Conservative Judaism and Reconstructionism, particularly in the context of Kushner
Link "Yom Kippur"
Link "forgiveness" to Repentance in Judaism
"He believed that Judaism is at its best when it considers the needs of people, and took liberties with Jewish theology to make people feel better." This sentence reads as puffery. It might be better to find a quote that similarly summarizes his perspectives rather than presenting them in Wikipedia's voice
Link "Orthodox Jews"
Perhaps rewrite the sentence regarding Kushner's views on omnipotence to more directly engage with the omnipotence paradox if sourcing provides for this
"Omnipotent Being — to" see MOS:DASH; minor changes to bring quotes into conformity with MOS are considered appropriate (not a GA requirement)
Rewrite "Genesis, Chapter 22" to "the Binding of Isaac"
Link "Abraham"
Link "Isaac"
Link "liberal Protestant" to Liberal Christianity#Liberal Protestantism
Which Protestant denomination is being referenced as the "UCC" (there are quite a few!). Please use the denomination's name and link to it
Please name the Israeli–Palestinian conflict as the basis for his 2005 comments

Awards and honors

If you wish to keep this content together, translate its content to the Personal life section, preferably without its own subheading
Compile all awards either into a single paragraph or disperse them into the relevant preceding sections adjacent to the material they are most-directly related to
"list of '50 individuals" Use a full quotation mark
The 1999 award appears to come from a non-notable group; consider removing reference to it
"The couple had a son Aharon Zev who died of progeria, daughter, Ariel, and two grandchildren." This sentence has several grammatical issues. Please rewrite and consider separating into at least two sentences
"Kushner was a congregant of Temple Israel of Natick" at what point did he formerly cease operating in a rabbinical role? If it was at his appointment to rabbi laureate, please elaborate on the meaning of that title
His affinity for the Brooklyn Dodgers is attested to in multiple sources, but consider mentioning it in the Early life section. I don't believe his support for the Boston Red Sox is similarly significant and it is my opinion that it can be removed
No need to separate his death from the rest of the personal life section

Bibliography

Please include the publisher for each book listed

References

Reference formatting is a bit inconsistent or inaccurate, with very simple links naming a general source with no page number for some (like "Conservative Judaism. Rabbinical Assembly. 2003.") and others referring a web source when they were originally printed ("'BEST-SELLING RABBI'S WORDS TO THE WISE: NOBODY IS PERFECT – Chicago Tribune'. www.chicagotribune.com. June 13, 1997. Retrieved April 30, 2023.")
Breadth of sourcing is sufficient for a decent article but I would have appreciate further critical review of Kushner's works

Overall

This review is on the cusp of a quick fail due to the mentioned copyright concerns. However, considering the primary contributing editor's prior work on a GA and the relative low-severity of the copyright issues, I am willing to hold off on a fail. There are a lot of issues that must be resolved, and I'm willing to place this GAR on hold until 26 August. If the issues are not resolved by then, I will fail. If these issues are resolved before the 26th, I plan to do another once-over of the article to locate any minor issues. I will then appraise the article from there. ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:14, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your time, diligence, and dedication to the encyclopedia. I will to my best to resolve all the issues by next week! Mooonswimmer 23:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mooonswimmer: I'm tracking your implementation of changes per my review comments. Excellent work thus far; thank you for not being daunted by a challenging task. I look forward to approving once everything is squared away! Again, great work thus far!~ Pbritti (talk) 19:45, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your words of encouragement! Mooonswimmer 20:31, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to address each of the issues you pointed out. Here are a few questions regarding changes I'm not so sure about:

Lead

The second paragraph should be expanded to express what the books Kushner wrote were about. Do you think my expansion is sufficient?
Listing one of the awards (perhaps the one most commonly referenced or most prestigious) and the year he received it would be a nice addition. What do you think of the awards I've mentioned?

One minor gripe with the lead: please add something about his general prominence elsewhere in the article, perhaps in the sentence beginning "Kushner's presence in". Otherwise, I'm well contented with your expansion and find your changes well-executed. Nice job. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:38, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

====Early life and education====

What does "Zionist" mean here? Link to the relevant definition. Do I need to clarify here? I think the wikilink is enough. All I could find was: "One noted graduate, who did not make aliyah but who did make an impact in Jewish thought, was Rabbi Harold Kushner. He was the third national president of SZO in the 1950s." in this Jerusalem Post article.
Additionally, elaborate on his military service if possible. Unfortunately, if there is any coverage of his service as a chaplain, I must have missed it.

Done. Excellent work on this section. There is a lack of sourcing on his military service, so I no longer feel that additional detail is relevant to an encyclopedic article on Kushner. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

====Rabbinical career====

Say where he was lecturing. I couldn't really find anything concrete.
This section feels like bullet-points more than a collection of complete thoughts. Please elaborate on role in the Rabbinical Assembly. Would you say my additions are enough? The most significant role seems to have been his contribution to Etz Hayim.
Expand on why he was selected to serve as a eulogist for the Reagan funeral. I couldn't find a reason why he was chosen, but numerous sources mention the specific passage he read, and note that it was Reagan's favorite. Additionally, there is a C-SPAN video of Reagan's funeral and I have extracted a short clipping of Kushner's reading. I'm not sure if the video of the funeral service is in public domain. There doesn't seem to be anything about the copyright on the page.

====Writing====

"is best known for" is a statement that requires strong and explicit sourcing; the Times of Israel article comes close to expressing this but instead emphasizes the book's popularity. Are the sources I've added enough?
Expand on the contents and contexts regarding When All You've Ever Wanted Isn't Enough. Another two sentences would be perfect. What do you think?
Paragraph starting "Kushner wrote a number of" is a bit disjointed. Consider splitting some of these ideas and seeking additional retrospectives on why his bibliography had a broad appeal
Do we have a superior source on his tenure as the editor of Conservative Judaism as this strikes me as a smidge of original research. There seem to be a few articles that simply mention his tenure as an editor without mentioning the years. The Conservative Judaism source I have cited includes him in a list of "Past editors", along with the exact years. Google Books only provides a "snippet view", so no page number unfortunately.

====Copyright interlude====

I have done my best to paraphrase the highlighted passages.

Done. I don't see any offenders, but will do a final check immediately prior to approval just on the off change the tool missed something. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:40, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

====Views====

Please further define Conservative Judaism and Reconstructionism, particularly in the context of Kushner. Do you think my changes are enough, particularly when it comes to Conservative Judaism?
Perhaps rewrite the sentence regarding Kushner's views on omnipotence to more directly engage with the omnipotence paradox if sourcing provides for this. I have tried my best to do this, please let me know what you think.

====Awards and honors====

"Kushner was a congregant of Temple Israel of Natick" at what point did he formerly cease operating in a rabbinical role? If it was at his appointment to rabbi laureate, please elaborate on the meaning of that title. Is the meaning of the title now clear?

====References====

Reference formatting is a bit inconsistent or inaccurate, with very simple links naming a general source with no page number for some (like "Conservative Judaism. Rabbinical Assembly. 2003.") and others referring a web source when they were originally printed ("'BEST-SELLING RABBI'S WORDS TO THE WISE: NOBODY IS PERFECT – Chicago Tribune'. www.chicagotribune.com. June 13, 1997. Retrieved April 30, 2023.")

I have tried my best to fix the reference formatting, but there might still be a few errors. Regarding the Conservative Judaism citation, I believe it is one of two where Google Books provides only a snippet view and not the page number. I was unable to access a copy.

Questions

Should the lead section be expanded? What other passages in the text warrant further elaboration?
What would you say is the right wikilink for "Nazi" in the Writing section?
Should the publishers be wikilinked multiple times in the Bibliography section, or just the first time they're mentioned?

Thank you for your time! Mooonswimmer 19:58, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mooonswimmer: For some reason, I didn't see that you had replied here! I'll be replying to your edits and comments shortly. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your changes are generally great, by the way, but I have yet to go through things more precisely. This should be an almost painless exercise going forward. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moonswimmer: I have a question about this line from a block quote: Forgiving is not something we do for another person. . . . Forgiving Is the ellipsis native to the quote? ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:37, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked the passage in the book itself and it's "Forgiving is not something we do for another person, as the Nazi asked Wiesenthal to do for him. Forgiving happens inside us."

The 2 secondary sources I checked omit "as the Nazi asked Wiesenthal to do for him," replacing it with an ellipsis.

I will add that part and cite Weisenthal's book instead, as I should have done in the first place, in retrospect. Mooonswimmer 20:29, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely a minor gripe on my end. Intend to promote sometime in the next 24 hours barring me catching anything else. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:02, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking forward to it! Mooonswimmer 23:40, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.