Talk:Hamantash

Homentash vs. Hamantash vs. Hamantasch

For most of this article's existence, the main title was "Hamantash" or "Hamantasch." Redaktor changed the title to "Homentash." Thousands of websites refer to this cookie as "Hamantash" or "Hamantasch," while far fewer call it "Homentash." I think it should be changed. Poldy Bloom 04:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I changed the title to "Hamantasch" as a common spelling. Then, I began steps (with administrator help) to change the title to "Hamantash," which seems to be the most common spelling. If you change it back to "Homentsh" or if you ask the administrator to do so, please provide a more detailed and reasoned explanation why here, and let's have a discussion among the community. Thanks. Poldy Bloom 05:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Cheese Hamantaschen

I added cheese as a flavour of fillings for hamantaschen. It was deleted because the person had never heard of cheese as a filling for hamantaschen. I have been eating cheese hamantaschen, which my Mom buys from a bakery, every year for as long as I can remember. If you search for cheese hamantaschen on Yahoo or Google you will see a lot of recipes for it. It exists and my tastebuds are very gratfeul for that. Jami86e 06:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I put it back, since apparently "cheese hamantaschen" do exist. It seems rare, though, based on the number of Google hits it gets. I also added in a reference for it.--DLand^TALK 12:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Jami86e 19:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Origins of name

Before Redaktor changed "Hamantasch" to "Homentash" throughout the article, the origins of the name were attributed to "Haman's pocket." Redaktor changed the article to read, "The name homentashn is a corruption of Yiddish: מאן־טאשן montashn, German: mohntaschen, meaning poppyseed cakes." Does anyone have any evidence of this linguistic provenance? Can someone provide a legitimate printed (i.e. non-internet) source? If so, please add a footnote to the article. By the way, "mohn" does mean poppyseed in German, but "taschen" means "pockets," not "cakes." (The German word for cake is "Kuchen.") I am going to change the article to reflect the two possible origins of the name. The montashn theory may be more correct from a scholarly point of view (and I don't know if it is), but the Haman's pocket theory is the most commonly believed. So, I think it is best to present them both. Poldy Bloom 04:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

http://seforim.blogspot.com/2008/03/origins-of-hamentashen-in-jewish.html extensively quotes Jewish literature, in the original Hebrew, as to the source of the custom. I tried to insert this link into the page, but the automated bot removed it. 213.151.63.239 (talk) 18:48, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

not a "cookie"

it is definitely not a "cookie" but does fit the definition of a small pie Haim Berman 15:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I think pastry is the best description.--DLand^TALK 15:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read the definitions of both pastry and pie. Pastry is the more general term, and includes pie. Since hamantash fits the narrower definition of pie, it should be described as such, rather than using the more general term which is vaguer (less informative). ( ( Haim Berman 15:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC) ) )

While a hamantash might not be a cookie, it is definitely not a pie. If common sense isn't enough to convince you, the Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines "pie" as:

"a baked food having a filling of fruit, meat, pudding, etc., prepared in a pastry-lined pan or dish and often topped with a pastry crust: apple pie; meat pie."

I encourage you to produce a source that describes a hamantash as a pie, but I doubt you will be successful.--DLand^TALK 15:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The pie definition which you quote above does include hamantash — no surprise here, the WikiPedia pie definition also clearly includes hamantash — as far as I can tell. You and I differ on "common sense" and also on reading the English language. ( ( Haim Berman 07:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC) ) )

[outdent]Hamantashen are not prepared in a pastry-lined pan - they are made by taking balls of dough and flattening them out into circles, then filling them with jelly or whatever. Pies are made to fill the pan or the container within which it is being made. There is a clear difference - I can try to build consensus by polling other Wikipedians to see if they agree, if you want, but your argument is surprising to me, frankly. --DLand^TALK 13:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Definitely not a pie. (I can't say whether it is a cookie or not—the word loses its meaning on its way to the Eastern side of the Atlantic.)--Redaktor 16:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I first must apologize as I may have mis-interpreted the dictionary-definition which you had quoted for pie. You have now convinced me that the Random House Unabridged Dictionary definition of pie does exclude hamantash — as well as pizza and pasty perhaps — whereas I'm certain these should all be considered pies. A poll of WikiPedians would be welcome. Perhaps this discussion should move to Talk:Pie? — Haim Berman 08:57, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Regarding your two counter-examples: 1. A pizza is certainly not a pie in the standard sense - it is sometimes called a "pizza pie" because it resembles a pie in some respects, e.g. it is round, it has a crust on the bottom and on the sides - I don't think that anyone would reasonably equate a pizza with, say, an apple pie. 2. A pasty is indeed a pie, and it does fall within the definition, as it is made in a "pastry case" according to the Wikipedia article. Also, please don't reformat the page with extra spaces - that is not the accepted style for talk pages. We use indents to distinguish between different speakers. --DLand^TALK 16:34, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

No offence guys, but the closest you can get to a definition would probably "individual tart". On the other hand, I think the "Hamantash" is a one-off. Def:cookie dough shell with filling and no top. My family goes with cookie, but reading this I think that is wrong. Pie is close but a pie by its definition has a closed top. 4:09 PM UTC, Wednesday, March 8, 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathanj513 (talk • contribs)

shape/meaning of "Hamentaschen"

Some sources say the pastry resembles Haman's hat. But the name means, literally, "Haman's pocket". I can't find any "authoritative" source to cite, but it seems obvious to me that the shape of these pastries is also suggestive of Esther (or more precisely, part of Esther). Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 14:50, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Opiat drugs in Hamantaschen

This urban myth keeps reappearing in all sorts of media, now even Wikipedia. I don't think there's any serious evidence that poppy seeds in pastries contain enough narcotic substance to give the same effect as a single Codeine pill, not to mention make someone appear to be a Heroin addict in a lab test. Please provide source(s) if it's not a myth after all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.134.137.71 (talk) 19:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on the myth-monger. I removed the unsourced statement. Yoninah (talk) 21:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I suppose someone that had a poppyseed hamentasch could test positive for opiates as can sometimes happen with the consumption of poppy seeds, but that is not the same as opiate drugs and not at all specific to hamentaschen. (12/12/13) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.95.126.178 (talk) 17:29, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Source please

"The word tasch means "pouch" or "pocket" in Germanic languages...", Tasche means "pouch" or "pocket" in German. Please provide a source for the general statement about Germanic languages.91.39.112.37 (talk) 21:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done I reworded the sentence. --Île flottante (talk) 20:15, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Haman's ears

This is not just in Hebrew. I am translating the stenographic transcripts of the Beilis trial which are available in Russian online. On day 7 one of the Christian factory workers is testifying and since he is illiterate, he tells dates only by their being before or after holidays, usually Christian ones. But he also goes around in circles with one of the prosecutors when he says that something he did fell at the time of "Haman's ears," obviously Hamentaschen time or Purim. He can't even read Russian, let alone Hebrew, so he must get the phrase _hamen ukha_ (ukha is Russian for ears) from talking to the Jewish people working at the factory, including Beilis. In fact one of the things he goes around in circles with is that the prosecutor asks him does he know anything about Mordechai and Esther and he says no. Being illiterate he has never read the Bible. All he knows is that the Jewish people at the factory have a yummy thing that they share with him after Christmas and it's called hamen ukha. If you read Russian, go to the Wikipedia article for the Beilis trial, click the external link for the stenographic record, go to volume 1.2, page 98 in Dja Vu and page 238 as the transcript numbers it. 71.163.114.49 (talk) 13:14, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Place of origin

Now states: Jewish from World. Today mostly in Israel. First of all, what does Jewish from World mean? Is that language conventional in Wikipedia? Are there any sources on the actual origin of the food? Also, what is the source for "today mostly in Israel"? I live in New York and this food item is practically universal among Jews here during Purim, and everywhere else I've traveled. I don't see the point in specifying Israel, where only ~25% of Jews live. Besides which, wherever it's popular today has no relation with its origin. Yak314 (talk) 19:46, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I am sure that this is world wide treat. I know that Israelis do this but it is not a big deal. But the rest of us outside of Israel need to keep the traditions a little harder because of the fact that we are in a minority. I know New York has them in Deli shops as well as Jewish bakeries. But I live in Cincinnati, Ohio and synagogue kitchens here are making them and there is one kosher bakery and they are making them. Little things like Hamantashen and the filling(Purem), Challah and washing of the hands(Sabbath), Dreidel cookies(Hanukkah) are minor things but since we live in the diaspora, the little things mean so much more. Also, try changing "Jewish from world. Today mostly in Israel." To, "Jewish People of the world, but, mostly in Israel." Grammatically, sounds better, although incorrect. 4:09 PM UTC Wednesday, March 8, 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathanj513 (talk • contribs)

Tricorn and Y.T. Lewinski

I've always been curious about the origins of the "three-cornered hat" theory, because it's poorly documented and I always assumed it came from the US, where 18th-century clothing is associated with a sort of national costume (George Washington etc.). I noticed that a Chabad article refers to a publication by Yom Tov Lewinski that attributes it to the clothing of officers in the Napoleonic era, as observed by Jews in Russia and Poland.

The source is: Yom Tov Lewinsky (1963). Sefer HaMoadim. p. 154.

My Hebrew isn't good enough to translate it well, but I've dumped the Google Translate output below:

Original

Google Translate output

בסביבות פולין ורוסיה רווחה מסורת שהמן הרשע חבש כובע משולש, כשם שנהגו לחבוש הקצינים הגבוהים האזרחיים ברוסיה ובארצות אחרות (כובע גאפוליון) ועל כן עושים את הכיםן בתבנית משולש. סופרי מנהגים אחרים מצאו ששלוש הקרנות הן כגגד ג׳ האבות, שכאשר ראה אותם המן ת ש כוחו. ועל כן עושים ״המן־תש״ (כלומר: המן טאש) בשלוש קצוות (והשווה ״אוצר כל מנהגי ישורון״ בשם מעשה אלפסי). באילו מקורות עתיקים נאמר שנוהגים לאכול זרעונים בליל פורים — זכר לאסתר שאכלה בארמון המלד זרעונים ולא התגאלה בפת בגו. ומכאן המנהג למלא את העוגה או הכיסן זרעונים. ויש הרואים בפרג שממלאים בו את העוגה זכר לעשרת האלפים ככר כסף שהמן רצה לשקול על ידי עושי המלאכה להביא אל גנזי המלך. בספרותנו החדשה קראו למאכל פורימי זד. ״לחמניה משולשת״(מנדלי מו״ס, בימים ההם) אולם נתקבל השם בגוסת איטליה ואגו אוכלים בפורים ״אזגי המן״ עד היום.

Around Poland and Russia there was a tradition that the evil Haman wore a triangular hat, just as they used to wear the high civilian officers in Russia and other countries (Cap Napoleon) and therefore they made the cup in a triangular pattern. Other writers of the customs found that the three foundations were like the three fathers, which Haman saw as his strength. Thus Haman-thash (ie, Haman Tash) is made at three ends (and compared to "the treasure of all the customs of Yeshurun" in the name of Alfasi). In what ancient sources it is said that one is accustomed to eating seeds on the night of Purim - a reminder of Esther who ate seeds in the palace of the king and was not redeemed in the peso. Hence the custom of filling the cake or sowing seeds. Some see the poppy filling the cake as a reminder of the ten thousand shekels that Haman wanted to consider by the craftsmen to bring to the king's treasure. In our new literature, we called the food Forimi Zed. "Triple bun" (Mendele Moisar, in those days), but the name was accepted in Italy and Ego and on the Purim feast "Ezzy Haman" to this day.

If somebody who is better at Hebrew than I am can take a look at the source, I think there's quite a bit of information that would help this article. Ibadibam (talk) 22:41, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

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