Talk:Haklau Min

Hoklo Min?

@Theknightwho: I see you have moved this page from Haklau Min to Hoklo Min. However, this may cause confusion, since Hoklo is an alternative name for Hokkien. Haklau is probably not a good title too — it is derived from the Southern Min pronunciation of 學佬 (Ha̍k-láu), which is a Hakka term for the Hokkien-speaking Hoklo people and one of the possible etymologies for the word Hoklo.

Hai Lok Hong Min may be a better term here, for the following reasons:

it has some mentions, mostly referring to the Hai Lok Hong people in SEA, but sometimes also to their language;
it is more neutral: the classification of this lect as part of Hokkien is controversial, and many works still consider it a dialect of Teochew;
it is consistent with the titles of other such articles (Hokkien and Teochew), using the SEA English rendering of the native name for this language (and not the Mandarin-derived pinyin spelling, which would be Hailufeng).

--QuestionableAnswers (talk) 01:32, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@QuestionableAnswers These are all good points, though I can't actually find any evidene that Hai Lok Hong Min has actually been used. I completely take your point regarding Hoklo Min, though, so it would be best if we didn't use that as the name of the article. For better or worse, Hailufeng Min might work, despite the fact it's a Mandarin-derived name, since it seems to be an unambiguous term which has actually been used outside of Wikipedia. Theknightwho (talk) 20:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theknightwho It would seem that "Hailufeng Min" is arbitrary and has no more currency than, say, "Hai Lok Hong Min". The trouble lies mostly with "Min". We don't call English "English Germanic". By the same token, of course we're hard-pressed to find evidence that "Hai Lok Hong Min" or "Hailufeng Min" have ever been used.

This language is part of neither Hokkien nor Teochew. Any claim to the contrary should be closely inspected. 釆 (talk) 16:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theknightwho: "Hai Lok Hong" (and "Hailokhong") has some uses by itself, and "Min" should be added just to distinguish it from "Hai Lok Hong people" (海陆丰人), who would need their own article, and to avoid labeling it as a "dialect" or "language". --QuestionableAnswers (talk) 12:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theknightwho I'd like to also add some input from an actual person from 海豐可塘 that currently still lives there. See comments on her youtube channel, how they normally call themselves and their language. The lady in the video also knows how to speak Cantonese and that's what she's using in the video tho. Also, I'd like to clarify that "Haklau" is not the Hokkien pronunciation of 學佬, it is the pronunciation itself of the 海陸豐 people's language themselves, as per page 56 of 海丰方言 by 罗志海 Mlgc1998 (talk) 19:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Theknightwho Have you seen (for instance) this?

https://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/server/api/core/bitstreams/af74e3e3-e860-45ac-8f78-bae665d0295e/content

This should highlight how confusing & misleading "Hoklo Min" is. A spot-on descriptor would be "_______ Hoklo", e.g. "Hai Lok Hong Hoklo". It would be a descriptor, though, not a real-life usage (b/c none of those seem to work as a title here). 釆 (talk) 02:22, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@釆 @QuestionableAnswers Without an obvious direction alternative name and taking into account the ambiguity of "Hoklo Min", I've moved it back to "Haklau Min" for now. Theknightwho (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]