Talk:Haitian Creole/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Question

* zwazo - oiseau [(le)s oiseaux] - bird Shouldn't that be le(s) oiseaux? 66.32.97.68 19:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nope. The point of the parentheses was that the first z in zwazo comes from the s in les. Since the first part of les has been left out of the Creole word, they put it in parentheses. (In any case, if there were no final s and the French word were singular, it would not be *le oiseaux but l'oiseau – however, that's irrelevant to Creole, which takes zwazo from the French plural...) QuartierLatin1968 09:23, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually, on second glance, scratch what I said, I don't know why they decided to put the part that is incorporated into the Creole in parentheses, for example in (la) lune. Seems weird. Can we maybe take out the parentheses in (la)? QuartierLatin1968 09:28, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I need help with some information for the infobox

Are there any organizations that regulate this language? what are the ISO codes for this language? Revolución 04:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

In addition to the two codes listed already, HT states that "ht" is the ISO 639 alpha-2 code for this language. That would explain why the Haitian Creole Wikipedia is at ht.wikipedia.org. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mxn (talk • contribs) 18:34, 18 June 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's "ht". I'm the person who registered it with ISO, in 2003: [1]. And in Internet use, two-letter codes (where available) take precedence over three-letter codes. Sean M. Burke (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:32, 2 March 2010 (UTC).

Sample phrase pronunciations

I have some doubt that Creole uses the a sound as much as the IPA pronunciations make it seem, but I know nothing of Creole, and french does use it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee S. Svoboda (talk • contribs) 21:57, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Creole ʁ?

I edited the IPA so that it represents the French uvular /ʁ/ more accuately, but is the r for Haitian Creole an alveolar trill or is it also uvular? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeusoes1 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe it exists. I have never heard Haitian Creole spoken with an uvular trill and I've toured the country extensively. In fact, I believe it is one of those things that, to the average Haitian, sounds "Frenchy" and therefore snobbish/condescending. Braidedheadman 18:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It does existe in creole as well do the french sounds (oe, eu etc.) people forget there is more than one way to pronounce things in creole. Accents vary in Haiti so not everyone pronounces everything the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.104.54 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

This is true. I also have noticed it is more heard upon emphasis in the speaker; such as a point trying to be made. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:52, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Who's your daddy?

Why is this included in the list of phrases? :: Salvo (talk) 08:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

No idea. Possibly it is meant as a question directed at a child and nothing else? Kinda makes you chuckle though, doenit...  ;] //Big Adamsky 15:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Comment

I am Isaac Crumm. I have been looking at wikipedia for quite some time, but I just joined recently. I think this particular page is pretty awesome. I added a bunch of those phrases and grammar yesterday. Thanks to whoever made it real neat and presentable; I am still trying to get a hang of the markup commands. I haven't been much in the Haitian-Creole circles for quite some time, so I may be kind of old on the spelling, and my computer currently can't use the accent marks.

Does anyone know of Bryant Freeman- has he published anything new recently (last 10 years)? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 08:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone; it looks like this page is really coming along. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I added the missing accents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.207.66 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The accents were added. Fågelina 22:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

More varied vocabulary sample needed

The words in the sample vocabulary seem to have been picked for the purpose of showing the derivation from French. But presumably the language has words borrowed from other sources, or made up (onomatopoeias etc.) It would be nice to include examples of those words too. Jorge Stolfi 10:55, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Good point, Some were added. It appears though that maybe not all of them are not of French origin. More in this dept would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 17:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization of Aysiyen

I believe that in French orthography the derivatives of proper nouns are not capitalized, is that correct? What is the custom in Haitian Creole? In particular, should we write Aysiyen or aysiyen? Jorge Stolfi 10:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)</nowiki>

—Haitian Creole follows the French language - it is not capitalized "ayisyen." Fågelina 21:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I was just about to ask this. Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:56, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Dialect

The article says "There are two dialects: Fablas and Plateau." Could we get some more info on these? There is nothing written in the stubs linked. I have never heard these terms used by Haitians (doesn't mean they don't use them, just I don't hear them), but I frequently hear "kapwaz" used to describe the Cap Haitian mode of speech. Any comments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The Creole spoken in the North, Cap-Haitien for example, is closer to the Creole spoken in Guadeloupe and Martinique. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 22:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Your rendition of "Capois" in Creole is incorrect. The "s" is silent so it would be Kapwa, if you would like to use that spelling for an actual person. See: François Capois, a revolutionary northerner, hence where the name came from. Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:36, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Random question

Should Haiti be considered a Latin American country? This is a topic on the Latin American talk page. I don't want to bring the debate here, but was just curious what the users here thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isaac Crumm (talk • contribs) 07:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Classifications are always arbitrary unless one specifies a purpose. So the real question is: what is the purpose of classifying countries into "Latin American" and "not Latin American"? Once you answer this question, the answer to your question will probably be obvious. Jorge Stolfi 19:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

PS. Remember to sign your entries with "~~~~" so that readers can tell one message from another. Jorge Stolfi 20:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

That seems like a very reasonable answer. Many different factions are arguing about it on the Latin America page. Isaac Crumm 08:03, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Fun fact: Half jokingly, I once announced to a group of Canadians that I had just spent some time in Quebec and had come to the conclusion that it is a Latin American country. That got a good laugh out of them. A notably uncomfortable laugh. Your mileage may vary. Sean M. Burke (talk) 05:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I always thought Haitian "creole" was just really a slang-infused, pidgin French--kind of like slang variants of English, such as jive. This is what the Haitians I see at the airport have told me many many times. And I speak French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.143.173 (talk) 03:46, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Not sure your point is relevant here, but regardless, it's not true. It's a language with its own unique grammar, vocabulary, phonology and orthography. You might as well call French "slang-infused, pidgin Latin".... Prof Wrong (talk) 10:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It is indeed a language and why it continues to be called "Haïtian Creole" and not simply "Haïtian" is because of the attitudes of people in the Haïtian elite that the official language of the country should be French. Never mind that most Haïtians do not speak any French. English started out as a creole of Anglo-Saxon and French (with an earlier admixture of Danish.) The Haïtian elite has almost always been parasitic on the ordinary Haïtian speaking people of Haïti. I'm peripherally part of this elite, having been encouraged to learn French even though I grew up in the U.S. Pascalulu88 (talk) 04:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Fek

Hello, i was wondering about the origin of this word. It is also used in Mauritian Creole (e.g. Mo fek fer sa... I just did that) but we do not know how or where it comes from. MC does not have much West-African influence except for an archaic word no longer used{Wati-wale(Wolof)..par ci par la(French)..by here by there}. Anybody with any info? Domsta333 09:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The French Wikipedia says it comes from the French phrase "ne faire que...". --201.218.24.21 01:53, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Fê'k indeed does come from ne faire que. In creole the ne as well as the r sound in faire and the e sound of que so as a result you get fai'q or fê'k. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.37.157 (talk) 13:31, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Spelling

Someone just (as in today) changed the spelling of many of the words in the article. I think it would be good if they put some comments here in the discussion page about it. How is the uniformity of the spelling these days? The changes made- are they some kind of standard, or are they simply the way that particular person thinks they ought to be written? Isaac Crumm 07:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

While I'm generally a fan of including diacritical marks where appropriate in names of places, I have never seen the diaeresis on the word Haitian when used in English. It seems like the change may have been well-intentioned but incorrect. :: Salvo (talk) 00:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

It does look that way. A lot of the links on the politics of Haiti page are now dead, because they're all pointing to articles named "Haïtian senate election" or whatever. Fact is, in French and Creole, aï and ayi represent two syllables, whereas in English, the ai is just a diphthong (one syllable), which means there's no more reason for a diaeresis than there would be in "Jamaica". (And for the record, I agree with Salvo in usually preferring to see the diacritics in non-English names!) QuartierLatin1968 22:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Since Kharker has not backed up her/his spelling changes with any sort of explanation, either here or on her/his talk page, I'm going to move the article back to the version without the diaeresis.  :: Salvo (talk) 06:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It's not Haïtians' fault that English speakers mispronounce the name of the country. It's "aye-ee-tee", not "hate-ee." I'm kidding but only partly. Pascalulu88 (talk) 04:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Pronouns

Someone recently added "vou" to the list of pronouns, should it be there? If someone is really speaking Creole, is "vou" used? Isaac Crumm 01:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

I've heard it used sometimes in the Creole of the French Antilles (Guadeloupe and Martinique), but I don't remember ever hearing it in Haitian Creole. (IANAE) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.60.250 (talk • contribs) 05:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a "Frenchy" plural form of "you". You might hear it in/around the capital, particularly in Petionville, Delmas, and other areas where people consider themselves "more educated", especially among the Mulato and upper-class. Hence, its use is considered somewhat snobbish and condescending by most Haitians. "Nou" is more appropriate in casual conversation. Braidedheadman 17:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Vou is not snobbish, it is polite. People have the misconsception that haitians hate anything french. That is untrue and a misrepresentation of our people. Terms differ depending on region for example some people use zot intead of yo and some vou instead of ou. Plus ou is vou without the v. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.104.54 (talk • contribs) 18:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I am a native Haitian creole speaker and have lived in Haiti on and off for 30 years (8 years in Port-au-Prince, 5 years and counting in Cap-Haitien) and when not in Haiti I've been in quotidian contact with Haitian Creole speakers and culture. I have never, EVER heard "vou" used in Haitian Creole, and this across social classes or regional origins. Whether it be in casual conversation, formal presentations, literature, theatre, music... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.115.177.77 (talk) 06:53, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Verbs section

The verbs section—particularly the examples of conjugation—seems ill-formatted. I’m personally not quite sure how it should be reformatted, so I tagged it with a clean-up notice. --Joshua 23:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

"Sounds and spellings" and "Lexicon" sections need work

"Sounds and spellings" needs more information, e.g. on ò and ch. "Lexicon" needs to have several of the IPA pronunciations filled in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.255.29 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

"Goodfatherhood"? What's the source of this?

Is it ozetazini or etazini? 24.159.255.29 23:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Ozetazini is correct, (phonetically) from the French, "Aux États-Unis (d'Amérique)". "Etazini" is also correct and is similar in use to "The United States" vs. "The States" in English. Braidedheadman 17:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

"Ozetazini" = in/to the United States, comes from French "aux États Unis" and "etazini" = United States, comes from French "États Unis." Nothing upset me more to see "Ozetazini" writen with a capitalized "O" as if it was the official country name. Fågelina 20:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

But that is in fact just what it is; the official name, in Creole, for the country. Capitalizing the "O" is perfectly good grammar as a result. When you say "Ozetazini" to a Haitian, they do not think, "To the United States." They interpret it for what it is in Creole, a noun labeling a country. For example, "M'ap ale Ozetazini," translated correctly means, "I am going to go to the United States." It does not mean "I am going to go to the to the United States." This is an example of where knowlege of French vocabulary and gramatical structure can interfere with correctly interpreting/understanding Haitian Creole. Braidedheadman 17:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree with this. Creole speakers use "ozetazini" to mean exactly that: to the United States. The sentence "M ale ozetazini" means "I am going to the United States," and "Etazini se yon gran peyi" means "The United States is a great country." I have never heard a Creole speaker use "Ozetazini" to mean the name of the country, and I lived in Haiti for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cdeutsch (talk • contribs) 12:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Ozetazini and Ezetazini are the same word just pronounced differently. Creole is not an overly complicated language but you guys seem to make it seem so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.104.54 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Copula

I put some comments on the copula talk page regarding Haitian Creole. I think they are worth looking at and discussing (there) to enhance that article, and the stature of Haitian Creole in that article Isaac Crumm 20:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Recent Changes

Well, this goes for everyone, but today, specifically for 71.124.156.23, please discuss before making wholesale changes, and changes ought to be kept uniform with the way the language is described in the article (definite article = la, not la). Isaac Crumm 01:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Corrections

I've noticed a couple of items that I believe need to be examined for correctness. I'll list them below with what corrections I think should be made:

• In the "To know" verb category, the treatment of "konnen" and "konn" as two separate words, in form and definition, is incorrect. "Konn" is the contracted form of "konnen" and as such they share identical meaning. "Konnen (konn)" comes from the French verb "Connaitre", which means "to know of (someone/something)", "to have experience in (some activity)", "to be familiar with (some concept)", etc. For example, "Mwen Konnen Jean-Paul / I know Jean-Paul," and "Mwen konn pale kreyòl / I know how to speak Creole." The second verb form of "to know" that the original author was probably referring to is "se", in Creole, from the French verb "savoir", which means "to know (something)", as in, "Mwen se nimewo telefon mwen pa kè / I know my telephone number by heart," and, "Li se kreyòl / She knows Creole." Note that the verb "se / to know" can be confused with the verb "se / to be" in sentances such as these, especially if instead of saying "Creole" in the last example, one says, "Li se Haitian / She knows Haitian." :P
• I'll continue to add to this topic as time permits. If you choose to do so, please respond with bulleted indentations (:*) below each point that I raise in order to keep this tidy. Cheers. Braidedheadman 19:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I would have to disagree with what you are trying to say about "to know," I have never heard "se" to mean "savoir" except if one is speaking in a Frenchy way. We need to hear more opinions on the konnen vs. konn vs. se issue. Please, anybody? Isaac Crumm 22:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

That makes two of us: I've never heard a Creole speaker use "se" to mean "to know." --Cdeutsch 12:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

While reading the article, I found two points that looked to me like inconsistencies if I didn’t get it wrong: 1. Lexikon: why does the text contain „lalin“, but the table “lin” for ‘moon’? 2. “In some orthographic representations of Haitian Creole, <r> is used for both /ɣ/ and /w/, since /ɣ/ only occurs before front vowels and /w/ before back vowels. However, some modern orthographies use both <r> and <w> since the difference is phonemic.” Why should the difference be phonemic? If I understand this explanation correctly, they are in complementary distribution? 3. Finally, one interesting question the answer to which might be included into the article: what’s the etymology of the plural marker <yo>? G Purevdorj (talk) 23:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

"Sounds and Spellings"

Wouldn't it be more linguistically correct and more synergetic with other language articles to call this section "Phonology and Orthography"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csladic (talk • contribs) 23:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. Sean M. Burke (talk) 05:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Haitian French versus Haitian Creole

I'm under the impression that there is a distinction between Haitian French and Haitian Creole, but I'm not an expert on this. Gringo300 00:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there is no such thing as Haitian French, it's just regular French. Cakechild (talk) 03:02, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

There is no Haitian French but many Haitians amongst each other may mix Standard French and Creole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

You are both wrong; of course there is a Haitian French, otherwise based on your argument, there would be no differences and it would sound exactly like Parisan or mainland French. All regions away from France have their own "accents" of French and differences but at the end of the day it is all French. See: Belgian French, Canadian French, Haitian French, Swiss French. Same applies in English speaking countries. See: American English, Australian English, Canadian English, Jamaican English. Same applies in Spanish speaking countries. See: Cuban Spanish, Dominican Spanish, Colombian Spanish. Savvyjack23 (talk) 10:15, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

To Mr Savvyjack23, I must caution all people who are not speakers of Haitian Kreyol or French from writing Wikipedia articles on this subject. I am a Haitian who speaks both Kreyol and French as well as having native Canadian and French family members. When I speak with my French family members they understand me perfectly. There is no difference in the words. Only accent. Having a non French accent doesn't merit it being called Haitian French, it is the same exact words and system of writing. Again, if you don't speak ether of these languages please delete the "Haitan French". It is just French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakechild (talk • contribs) 20:11, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Cakechild, so with that logic, American English and English from England are the same? Americans pronounce the t's in between words like d's. Example: "Duty", sounds like "doodie". In Haiti, there are some differences in the sound as well. This is called an accent. Now Haitians abroad are a different story. Also, you should not assume that I have no idea what I am talking about. Savvyjack23 (talk) 00:23, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, in Haiti, when people try to sound too French when speaking it, people think it is funny. It's the same situation in the U.S. If an American started pronouncing the t's in between words like "nine ninty nine." (Nine-tee nine) H&R block just made a commerical of it [2]. It was supposed to be funny. The Haitian French and Creole came from the "classic" French style spoken from the 17th and 18th century but the French with "today's" vocabulary. Creole actually retains many of those classic words that are slimly used today. Today's French adopted many English words and there is a debate about it in France (they probably weren't pleased about it). Which makes you think, is it possible that Haitian French is more French when using some of the older words as well? That would be a good debate. In any case, the differences between French and Haitian French are not huge, but they are still differences. Hope this helps. Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:17, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

To MrSavvyJack, Actually, my logic wouldn't suggest that American English and British English are the same at all. In fact there are differences between both types of English that can't be applied to French and "Haitian French" as you say. In both types of English (British and American) differences abound in spelling and the name of words. For example, in America, we say the word "cookie" but in the UK it is "biscuit" what we call "biscuit" in America is "scone" over there. Also, here we spell the words "color" and "favor", in the UK it is "colour" and "favour". Now, it Haiti the French that we speak and write is the same words and spelling used in France. All I am saying is that there is a difference in accent when comparing the French spoken in Haiti and in France, it sounds differently but it is written and understood the same way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cakechild (talk • contribs) 20:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Hey I am from Haiti. We don't speak Haitian French, we just call it French. This is the first time I am hearing this term. No official government website on Haiti uses that term. It's these kinds of Wikipedia entries that make this cite so unreliable. P.S. check CIA haiti page if you don't believe me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.105.69 (talk) 05:46, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Cakechild, your logic serves you right! Yes, you are absolutely correct. I am definitely not insinuating that it is a new language or anything like that. It IS French, and ONLY French. 67.85.105.69, why would it be called Haitian French in Haiti? Nobody is saying that. Do you say you speak "American English?" in the U.S. or "Kreyol Ayisyen"; "Francais Haitien" in Haiti or Cubano Espanol in Cuba? No. Americans speak "English", "Kreyol"; "'French" in Haiti and 'Espanol" in Cuba. The country's demonym in front of the language in articles is JUST to show variance explaining the range of differences there might be (sound, perhaps spelling, perhaps an extended vocabulary due to borrowed words from other languages etc.); NOTHING more.

Some brief examples of spoken differences:

• French: The nasal EN": Tres bien Paris: Treh bi-UH; Haiti: Treh bi-EH Quebec: Treh bi-EH (the same as Haiti)
• See one in English: The ending "ER": Alter Britain (England): Al-TAH; America: Al-TER; Canada: Al-TER (the same as America)
• See one in Spanish: The "S': Spain: Los Perros Cuba: Loh PerrOH' Puerto Rico: Loh-PerrOH (the same as Cuba)

Gringo300, thank you for your inquiry; I somehow forgot to answer when I had replied. There is a huge distinction. Comparing Haitian French to Haitian Creole is equivalent to comparing Paris French to Haitian Creole. Even though Creole is 90% French in vocabulary, a French speaker would need some background knowledge of the language first (indefinite/definite articles, some sounds etc.) to be able to communicate. To a native French speaker, it won't take long to pick up the way the language is spoken. (weeks) There are also no verb congregations. Therefore to a native-English speaker, it will be easier to learn then French.

I apologize if I may have came out strong on anybody earlier. Savvyjack23 (talk) 04:49, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Yon

Someone put "yon" in front of a bunch of the nouns on the word list. I think it is very unnecessary. Anyone have any thoughts? Isaac Crumm 20:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Names

Someone changed some of the names from French spelling to a phonetic Kreyol like spelling. Personally, I have never seen a Haitian spell their name in this manner. I have always seen the French preserved. What is the current practice/opinion on this? Remember, Wikipedia is supposed to be descriptive not prescriptive. Isaac Crumm 20:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's not forget that all official documents in Haiti are written in French. If someone so-happens to name their child in a phonetic spelling, it would be their choice. This is seen done by Haitians in the Dominican Republic who try to hide their Haitian surname to avoid possible persecution. Baseball player Félix Pie is a strong possibility IMO. However, in Haiti this is not common at all. Savvyjack23 (talk) 05:50, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Mwa

Does mwa mean "me" (French moi)? If so, this would be a good word to add to the table, as it's an excellent example of the Africanized spelling found in Kreyol. Badagnani 01:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"Mwa" is not a Haitian Creole word. "Mwen" (sometimes just "m") in Haitian Creole means the first person singular in all cases. (I/Je Me/Moi My/Mine/Mon/Ma and Me- this is not really a one for one correlation as all these cases are not necessarily used in Haitian Creole, but "mwen" fulfills all these same roles. Isaac Crumm 01:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

---from le Créole - "Moi" & "Mwen" are the same word "mwen" is just moi being said with a Haitian accent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.12.177 (talk) 23:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I think "Mwa" is used in HC. It usually means Month, as in twa mwa, meaning three month. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AhadOnLine (talk • contribs) 13:51, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I was reading an Edo dictionary (Edo is a language mainly spoken in today's Nigeria) and they use 'Mwen' to say 'Me'--you can check it out on the internet, I'm sure--as for 'Nou' for You plural; I'm sure it is related to Jamaicans 'Unu', which can be traced back to the Igbo, 'Unu' or 'Una', also mainly spoken in Nigeria. Sanka Tulasie___________ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.205.109 (talk) 21:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

---from le Créole - "Moi" & "Mwen" are the same word "mwen" is just moi being said with a Haitian accent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.12.177 (talk) 23:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It might be worth noting that [mwa] «moi» is merely Modern Standard French for "me". In Colloquial Quebec French even now, it's [mwe]. It's reasonable to suppose that it was still [mwe] in many 18th century dialects from all over France-- and we should expect that Kreyòl's original lexifier was French from a whole spectrum of dialects; I doubt anyone was insisting that slaves be spoken to only in Parisian. Sean M. Burke (talk) 06:12, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

• You're correct about that, slaves were spoken to in informal french patois brought to the island by the french and that is how creole was born. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.34.66 (talk) 22:55, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Use of Expressions

The entry for Haitian Creole is very good. In my opinion it gives a clear and useful introduction to the language. However, being Haitian, I would like to point out that speaking Creole also means using and understanding a significant number of expressions or idioms. It is mentioned in the entry that there is a Creole dictionary. In fact, i've seen a few different, but equally useful, ones and they all contain a section dedicated to expressions. From my own experiences, i have noticed that without these expressions, of which the dictionaries only provide a subset, certain ideas cannot be fully communicated. This is aggravated by the fact that many of them are quite difficult to translate. I hope you consider this and continue the good work so that your article on Haitian Creole can become even more thorough. --65.94.172.242 06:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Interintelligibility with French

Is it interintelligible with french? if so,it should be noted in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.78.237.13 (talk) 16:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, what do you all think? Is it? Isaac Crumm 23:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

We can't say that haitian creole is interintelligible with french. Even if written haitian creole can sometime be understood by a french speaking person, it's really different for oral haitian creole. I say that because i'm from Guadeloupe (French West Indies), and we have a lot of haitian coming. As they come from a very poor part of the population, they do not speak and do not understand french at all. But, and it can be mentioned, they understand Guadeloupean/Martiniquese creole and can have dialogue with Guadeloupean/Martiniquese creole speaking persons. This is just a personal experience. 193.251.75.121 20:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thats because the synthax is West African--which is why English West Indian creole shares the same form, although the basiolects are different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.205.109 (talk) 21:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Haitian creole's syntax is not African. It originates from French. Words like de and être are often dropped which makes the syntax look less proper but the syntax is of French origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

No, it's not Interintelligible. A native French speaker may pick up on some words of Kreyòl, and an unschooled Haitian may get the gist of the French, but it's not clear transmission of information. It's like Dutch and English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.207.31 (talk • contribs) 10:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

It's more like English and Jamaican Patois (the real jamaican patois not just english with a jamaican accent). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.167.92.26 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Presentation for College class

I am doing a presentation on Haiti. I have got to know "key phrases" such as --- Where can I get something to eat? Where can I find a hotel or place to sleep? Where is the restroom? Hi and bye. And any other thing a tourist may want to know while visiting Haiti. I am representing a Touist Company wanting to make the customers dreams come true visiting Haiti. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.255.207.169 (talk) 00:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

English expressions in Haitian Creole

Is it really necessary to say that "fé back" and "napkin" pushed out original creole words? The idea of an "original" creole language is problematic to begin with, and the fact that the "original" lexical items are not identified suggests to me that the author of this section is more interested in expressing hostility to English than in providing factual information. Words are spoken by people--they do not invade a group's vocabulary of their own accord, and language is not a zero sum game anyway. I'm deleting the phrase in question, and referring its author to the wikipedia page entitled "creole languages." Cthulhu1234 (talk) 03:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Words derived from African languages

Are there any HC words that can be traced back to African languages? If so, we should add a section on this. Badagnani (talk) 03:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Very, very few, if any. The African influence in HC is mostly present in the syntax.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 21:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

The majority of the pre-European colonial African language borrowings (including Arabic) exist in Vodou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.207.31 (talk) 10:24, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Chiklèt

Isnt it possible that this term originates from spanish chicle rather than the brand name (which got its name from spanish) especially if the t is silent like in french ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.241.193 (talk) 12:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

No I am haitian and most of use do realize we use it because of the brand name, the same way we would say "napkin". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.30.208.117 (talk) 02:45, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I would concur that the word is derived from chicle, the traditional polymer that chewing gum is/was made from, rather than backformed from the derived brand name Chiclets. Barring any cultural evidence to the contrary, I back that theory. 71.241.78.140 (talk) 10:41, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Examples

It might be helpful to give French translations of the examples such as "Li se frè mwen" is "Il est mon frère". --81.129.142.136 (talk) 11:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

One of these days, I hope to maintenance this article so that it parallels the articles of other languages. Right now it's pretty much a big depository of facts about the language. I don't know what place French has in this article. Adding examples like "C'est mon frère" only makes it wordier than it already is. Haitian Creole has evolved away from French. Including French translations here could be as pointless as including Latin translations in the article about Spanish; indeed, it does show useful information about the evolution, but the languages have differentiated from each other long enough for it not to be necessary. Any opinion about the place French has in this Haitian Creole article, those who patrol this article?--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 20:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, yes. I think that the corresponding French phrases would be both interesting and useful. The purpose of them is not to make a political point, but rather merely to be descriptive and helpful. It's not derogatory to Creole to recognize that it is closely related to French and to point out the correspondences. Just as many people know English and find the English equivalents helpful, many people also know French and would find the French phrases helpful in understanding the Creole and learning how the language is structured. (I had a similar experience in reading about Portuguese while knowing Spanish... Of course Portuguese is not a dialect of Spanish, but for someone who already knows Spanish, it's very helpful to see and understand the systematic correspondences between Portuguese and Spanish.) Omc (talk) 16:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)